Off Topic UK has done well-by not given free access to gun??

[afcftw]

Mate I have lots of friends who abuse cannabis to ridiculous levels.
Trust me when I say it definitely has a detrimental effect on mental health.
A fraction of the percentage of other, more socially acceptable drugs, but there aren't really ANY drugs, which, if abused, DON'T have long term mental side effects.
They warp your state of mind (to varying degrees i admit) so its inevitable that it would have long term effects if abused.

A few key things in your response.

1) I'm a regular cannabis user and so are most people I know. I have a family member who spent a long time in one of, if not the, best mental health facility in the country and spent a lot of time there myself visiting. So I have a fairly good understanding of cannabis, it's effects and how it interacts with mental health.

2) I completely agree it has far less effect than many other drugs including the legal ones. And that of course it does have long term effects if consistently used.

3) the key word, is abuse. People need to recognise that they have to take responsibility for themselves. It's perfectly fine to have a vice in life as long as you are aware how you are effecting yourself and do it responsibly.

 

[Bodinki]

A few key things in your response.

1) I'm a regular cannabis user and so are most people I know. I have a family member who spent a long time in one of, if not the, best mental health facility in the country and spent a lot of time there myself visiting. So I have a fairly good understanding of cannabis, it's effects and how it interacts with mental health.

2) I completely agree it has far less effect than many other drugs including the legal ones. And that of course it does have long term effects if consistently used.

3) the key word, is abuse. People need to recognise that they have to take responsibility for themselves. It's perfectly fine to have a vice in life as long as you are aware how you are effecting yourself and do it responsibly.

Well to me, if you smoke Cannabis recreationaly EVERY day, thats abuse.
Same as if you were to drink a bottle of vodka or a six pack of beer, EVERY DAY, to me you are an alcoholic.

 

[afcftw]

I am not a drug user, but the smell cannabis puts me off. It smells terribly. Some people argue that it help them one way or another..I believe small amout. If anyone takes it in large proportion the effect can be worst that drinking ten cans of special brew larger or any strong larger. If that person have a gun, any assurance that he's not going to use it?.

Unfortunately lots of people think like you. But your assumptions are incorrect. Someone is FAR more likely to act violently when under the influence of alcohol than cannabis. And no, smoking cannabis isn't going to effect you more than drinking ten cans of special brew, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard

 

[afcftw]

Well to me, if you smoke Cannabis recreationaly EVERY day, thats abuse.
Same as if you were to drink a bottle of vodka or a six pack of beer, EVERY DAY, to me you are an alcoholic.

Oh I agree in general, when your using something every day and to the point it is having a detrimental effect in your life, your abusing it.

 

[Bodinki]

Unfortunately lots of people think like you. But your assumptions are incorrect. Someone is FAR more likely to act violently when under the influence of alcohol than cannabis. And no, smoking cannabis isn't going to effect you more than drinking ten cans of special brew, that is one of the stupidest things I've ever heard

For sure.
Alcohol, even the first time you use it, can make you act a supreme bell end whilst under the influence.
From what I read, Cannabis most likely requires years of abuse before it will have long term effects.
Whilst under the influence of it, you are most likely to just lie there and giggle like a prat whilst eating snack food, with blood shot eyes. that was my experience with it anyway.

 

[Tobes]

A few key things in your response.

1) I'm a regular cannabis user and so are most people I know. I have a family member who spent a long time in one of, if not the, best mental health facility in the country and spent a lot of time there myself visiting. So I have a fairly good understanding of cannabis, it's effects and how it interacts with mental health.

2) I completely agree it has far less effect than many other drugs including the legal ones. And that of course it does have long term effects if consistently used.

3) the key word, is abuse. People need to recognise that they have to take responsibility for themselves. It's perfectly fine to have a vice in life as long as you are aware how you are effecting yourself and do it responsibly.

I think it's easy to become psycologically addicted to cannabis, and once you've got there, there's a tendency to go for the stronger strains for your buzz.

It's the likes of skunk etc that can cause problems for people in my experience.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Medical studies show that a chronic buildup of cannabinoids produces both short and long-term cognitive impairments. There's no saying what's happening to your brain that you're unaware of and this applies to alcohol or any other drug. The younger you start, the more the brain is affected.

 

[LuisDiazgamechanger]

The ring test: a quantitative method for assessing the 'cataleptic'effect of cannabis in mice
RG Pertwee - British journal of pharmacology, 1972 - Wiley Online Library
Summary 1. A bioassay for cannabis, called the ring test, has been developed in which the
percentage of the total time spent on a horizontal wire ring during which a mouse remains
completely immobile is recorded. 2. The effect of cannabis on mobility is a dose-related, ...
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[PDF] from researchgate.netresearchgate.net [PDF]
The effect of cannabis on urge incontinence in patients with multiple sclerosis: a multicentre, randomised placebo-controlled trial (CAMS-LUTS)
RM Freeman, O Adekanmi, MR Waterfield… - International …, 2006 - Springer
Abstract Objective: To test whether cannabinoids reduce urge incontinence episodes
without affecting voiding in patients with multiple sclerosis. This was part of the multicentre
trial of the Cannabinoids in Multiple Sclerosis (CAMS) study. Subjects and methods: The ...
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[PDF] from nih.govnih.gov [PDF]
Effect of cannabis and certain of its constituents on pentobarbitone sleeping time and phenazone metabolism
WDM Paton, RG Pertwee - British journal of pharmacology, 1972 - ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Abstract 1. Cannabis extract prolonged sleeping time in mice in a thermally neutral
environment (30-32 C) in which hypothermia does not occur. The prolongation was dose
related, just detectable at 50 mg/kg, and 4-fold at 500 mg/kg.
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[PDF] from researchgate.netresearchgate.net [PDF]
The effect of cannabis on tremor in patients with multiple sclerosis
P Fox, PG Bain, S Glickman, C Carroll, J Zajicek - Neurology, 2004 - AAN Enterprises
Background: Disabling tremor is common in patients with multiple sclerosis (MS). Data from
animal model experiments and subjective and small objective studies involving patients
suggest that cannabis may be an effective treatment for tremor associated with MS. To our ...
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Evidence for a sex-specific residual effect of cannabis on visuospatial memory
HG Pope Jr, A Jacobs, JP Mialet… - Psychotherapy and …, 1997 - karger.com
Background: In an exploratory study, we used a novel computerized battery of
neuropsychological tests of attention to assess residual cognitive impairment in marijuana
users. Methods: We compared 25 college students who were heavy marijuana smokers ( ...
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Cannabis abuse and the course of recent-onset schizophrenic disorders
DH Linszen, PM Dingemans… - Archives of General …, 1994 - archpsyc.jamanetwork.com
... Survival time until the first incidence of re¬ lapse or exacerbation was analyzed with treatment
condi¬ tion, cannabis abuse, intensity of cannabis abuse, and duration of cannabis abuse before
hospital admission as grouping variables. The effect of covariates was analyzed ...
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[Bodinki]

It is also inarguable though, that Cannabis also has medicinal effects on people with Physical impairments like Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Cancer patients etc.
So it does have its good side.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

It is also inarguable though, that Cannabis also has medicinal effects on people with Physical impairments like Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Cancer patients etc.
So it does have its good side.

As does alcohol. There's real health benefits from drinking red wine for instance but as you said earlier it's abuse of any substance that renders the abuser [possibly] a danger to themselves and to others.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

Not sure I agree with your diagnosis but the odds are that he has a long term mental health issue (possibly several), now, we can't say if any of these were caused by cannabis use but one thing is for sure, it wont have helped.

Pretty sure there is no scientific evidence cannabis causes such severe psychotic mental issues. I would assume anyone who has had issues from smoking it made already existing mental health conditions more prominent, not just weed, medications can also make the condition worse.

As for your statement about cannabis not helping, how do you know he wouldn't have killed people sooner if it were not for the weed? If he hadn't smoked, with the mental issues he obviously has, he might have gone off on one sooner, we don't know to be honest but we do know weed is a distraction and certainly effects motivation. Just saying like.

I find smoking weed leads to carpentry not going to the local church and shooting 9 people.

There are many people using cannabis for things like acute anxiety, and PTSD as it is called nowadays, originally known as shell shock. A lot depends on the condition of the user.
Unfortunately the criminalisation of weed has done infinitely more damage to society than weed ever could have itself

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Not sure I agree with your diagnosis but the odds are that he has a long term mental health issue (possibly several), now, we can't say if any of these were caused by cannabis use but one thing is for sure, it wont have helped.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. Someone with mental health/depression issues + cannibas and/or alcohol = one ****ed up sum. Like throwing petrol on a fire and saying it was burning before I got there.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

As does alcohol. There's real health benefits from drinking red wine for instance but as you said earlier it's abuse of any substance that renders the abuser [possibly] a danger to themselves and to others.

Again, no arguments from me. But if you have mental health and depression issues alcohol and cannibas will compound the issue.

 

[Bodinki]

Pretty sure there is no scientific evidence cannabis causes such severe psychotic mental issues. I would assume anyone who has had issues from smoking it made already existing mental health conditions more prominent, not just weed, medications can also make the condition worse.

As for your statement about cannabis not helping, how do you know he wouldn't have killed people sooner if it were not for the weed? If he hadn't smoked, with the mental issues he obviously has, he might have gone off on one sooner, we don't know to be honest but we do know weed is a distraction and certainly effects motivation. Just saying like.

I find smoking weed leads to carpentry not going to the local church and shooting 9 people.

There are many people using cannabis for things like acute anxiety, and PTSD as it is called nowadays, originally known as shell shock. A lot depends on the condition of the user.
Unfortunately the criminalisation of weed has done infinitely more damage to society than weed ever could have itself

Definitely agree with this.
The amount of money spent trying to stop people from giggling and eating snack food is gobsmacking.
Especially when the strain on Police and NHS resources is stretched to breaking point because of people in town centres who gets pissed up and get into fights, vandalise property, injure each other etc, but no, alcohol is legal.

Legalising pot would likely need to none of these issues, since most of the time, weed smokers have no aggression in them whatsoever when under the influence and are more likely to try hug you to death. (Though that is just as annoying )

Like I said, legalising a lot of drugs, and prostitution, is a win win for every body (Except the black market criminals, but we don't like them).

The products become safer, working conditions improve, money for all but the top criminal masterminds will be fairer, consumer and employee overall get a better deal.
Plus the government can tax it up the arse like they do with all vices (Booze and tobacco) and probably make a killing.
Still too many conservatives out there though.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Pretty sure there is no scientific evidence cannabis causes such severe psychotic mental issues. I would assume anyone who has had issues from smoking it made already existing mental health conditions more prominent, not just weed, medications can also make the condition worse.

As for your statement about cannabis not helping, how do you know he wouldn't have killed people sooner if it were not for the weed? If he hadn't smoked, with the mental issues he obviously has, he might have gone off on one sooner, we don't know to be honest but we do know weed is a distraction and certainly effects motivation. Just saying like.

I find smoking weed leads to carpentry not going to the local church and shooting 9 people.

There are many people using cannabis for things like acute anxiety, and PTSD as it is called nowadays, originally known as shell shock. A lot depends on the condition of the user.
Unfortunately the criminalisation of weed has done infinitely more damage to society than weed ever could have itself

Yes there bloody is, Sis. Paranoid scizophrenia for one. Do you really want me to post the links? I'd rather not descend into one of these cut-and-paste tit-for-tit handbags with you again, mate, but even logic tells you that you get nothing for nothing in this life, and chronic dependence of a mind-altering drup will, er, alter your mind. Permanently. Do you really think that if you drink copious amounts of alcohol a day it won't affect you mentally as well as, obviously, physically? Alcoholics, like my sister, have to be weaned off alcohol as one of the possible side-effects of cold-turkey is epilepsy.

The examples you give of PTSD is under proper medical supervision. So are anti-depressants - I'm not saying everyone on SSRI's should ditch them overnight if they've been perscribed. Good God, no. But the willy-nilly handing out of them (like anti-biotics 30 years ago) will have long-term dependency issues for the whole of society, wait and see. They're becomming the Soma of the masses. And many people on them do still drink alcohol and smoke cannibas.

For someone who sees conspiracies everywhere, I am surprised that you don't question at all why 'THEY' seem to want as many of us as possible on mood altering medication, and easily-to-obtain mind-altering substances.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Definitely agree with this.
The amount of money spent trying to stop people from giggling and eating snack food is gobsmacking.
Especially when the strain on Police and NHS resources is stretched to breaking point because of people in town centres who gets pissed up and get into fights, vandalise property, injure each other etc, but no, alcohol is legal.

Legalising pot would likely need to none of these issues, since most of the time, weed smokers have no aggression in them whatsoever when under the influence and are more likely to try hug you to death. (Though that is just as annoying )

Like I said, legalising a lot of drugs, and prostitution, is a win win for every body (Except the black market criminals, but we don't like them).

The products become safer, working conditions improve, money for all but the top criminal masterminds will be fairer, consumer and employee overall get a better deal.
Plus the government can tax it up the arse like they do with all vices (Booze and tobacco) and probably make a killing.
Still too many conservatives out there though.

What you're talking about is the immediate effect of taking a drug. If that was the only issue to be thinking of, we'd all be best off on heroin and other opiates.

 

[Bodinki]

What you're talking about is the immediate effect of taking a drug. If that was the only issue to be thinking of, we'd all be best off on heroin and other opiates.

I know
Both drugs can have long term ill effects on your health if abused.
But only one has short term effects that can kill you whilst under the influence (Overdosing being the primary one).......booze.
And THATS the one that is legal!!!!!!!!!!

Thats the point I was making

I would also that the long term ill effects of Booze far outweigh the negative long term effects of cannabis abuse, most of which we aren't even 100% sure on, opinions change every day it seems.
For me personally I have seen what it can do, and it most definitely numbs your mind, makes you less sharp, less motivated, and can cause feelings of social anxiety. There are talks of evidence of psychosis (schizophrenia etc) in extreme abuse cases, but I have my doubts there.

Booze on the other hand, I have also seen first hand its effects, Sclerosis of the liver, throat cancer, severe withdrawals and sickness

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Look up gun crime and cannabis - there's loads of links to raids of cannabis farms linked to serious and organised crime gangs. Not saying cannabis leads to being a criminal that's not logical, but if all cannabis does is chill you out and give you the munchies why are there so many links to violent criminals and use of cannabis? Also, can anyone using it be sure that their money isn't going towards supplying guns or financing crime?

 

[Bodinki]

Look up gun crime and cannabis - there's loads of links to raids of cannabis farms linked to serious and organised crime gangs. Not saying cannabis leads to being a criminal that's not logical, but if all cannabis does is chill you out and give you the munchies why are there so many links to violent criminals and use of cannabis? Also, can anyone using it be sure that their money isn't going towards supplying guns or financing crime?

Indeed, There is the fact that blackmarket drugs and sex trades finance organised crime operations (mafia, terrorism etc).
Legalising both of these things would also end those revenue streams for those organisations.

 

[BBFs Unpopular View]

It is also inarguable though, that Cannabis also has medicinal effects on people with Physical impairments like Multiple Sclerosis, Muscular Dystrophy, Cancer patients etc.
So it does have its good side.

Yes there bloody is, Sis. Paranoid scizophrenia for one. Do you really want me to post the links? I'd rather not descend into one of these cut-and-paste tit-for-tit handbags with you again, mate, but even logic tells you that you get nothing for nothing in this life, and chronic dependence of a mind-altering drup will, er, alter your mind. Permanently. Do you really think that if you drink copious amounts of alcohol a day it won't affect you mentally as well as, obviously, physically? Alcoholics, like my sister, have to be weaned off alcohol as one of the possible side-effects of cold-turkey is epilepsy.

The examples you give of PTSD is under proper medical supervision. So are anti-depressants - I'm not saying everyone on SSRI's should ditch them overnight if they've been perscribed. Good God, no. But the willy-nilly handing out of them (like anti-biotics 30 years ago) will have long-term dependency issues for the whole of society, wait and see. They're becomming the Soma of the masses. And many people on them do still drink alcohol and smoke cannibas.

For someone who sees conspiracies everywhere, I am surprised that you don't question at all why 'THEY' seem to want as many of us as possible on mood altering medication, and easily-to-obtain mind-altering substances.

Actually for PTSD it is not only under medical supervision many vets have taken to self medication and it works for them, LSD has also been successful in relieving PTSD symptoms to make lives bearable.
Paranoid scizophrenia or just scizophrenia are most likely a result of the conditions already existing, for example, many who don't smoke weed at all get it, in fact the majority of people who get it are not weed smokers I'd imagine, so that would show the possibility that the person had potential for the condition and the weed or other substance abuse is the catalyst and of course when you start smoking is an issue. Starting at 12 years old while the mind is still developing will cause problems, but so will other substances.

I reckon caffine has led to more deaths than weed ever will.

I guess I am not suceptible to scizophrenia because I've smoked for 30 years without anything even remotely being an issue bar my lungs

scizophrenia sounds "dangerous" the truth is the vast majority of people who have it are no danger, it's only the people who are already nuts that are dangerous before they experienced scizophrenia.

If Mr Roof been born in New York, wasn't surrounded by racists and he enjoyed live without hate, I seriously doubt he's have gone on a rampage, smoking weed or not.

Some people are not meant to smoke it, their minds cannot handle it, lets not blame the weed. It's their own brain that is the problem

Also scizophrenia is hereditary, strongly so, anyone with a family history of it should avoid smoking weed and taking any other mind altering substance, but other things can bring it on, including depression and othe things that alter your reality.

I'd say the main causes are early life stress and genetics.