Off Topic UK has done well-by not given free access to gun??

[Bodinki]

whereas the british empire was built by nicely inviting the natives to join our peace loving commune that believed in everyone sharing the fruits of their labour.


The kidnapping was mainly done by other africans, obviously there was no involvement by the british in that slave trade and of course those slaves are very different to the thousands of "illegals" working here in the sex trade, farming etc TODAY!

So yes we are so much nicer than the americans and would therefore use our weapons in a much more peaceful than them.

Big difference between subjugation and extermination.

The slave trade yes, big British involvement early on, granted.

If you think that the climate of paranoia, fear, mental illness, racism and perceived persecution is even a fraction of the level they have in the US, then you live in a different country to me bud.

 

[terrifictraore]

If you think that the climate of paranoia, fear, mental illness, racism and perceived persecution is even a fraction of the level they have in the US, then you live in a different country to me bud.

I would agree about the paranoia and racism etc however, the amount of drug and alcohol fuelled violence shows the mentality of the ones that would use the guns.

 

[Bodinki]

I would agree about the paranoia and racism etc however, the amount of drug and alcohol fuelled violence shows the mentality of the ones that would use the guns.

Oh I don't doubt we would have thick chav ****ers using guns when they have had a few.
It is unthinkable to think that gun crimes wouldn't shoot up if we had a gun ration of 83 to every 100 citizens like they do in the US.
Still don't think the proportionate stat for gun crime would touch America's though. US Police have murdered 560 people alone so far in 2015 and we are only half way through the year....and thats just the Police, before we even get to the criminals

 

[afcftw]

Not sure I agree with your diagnosis but the odds are that he has a long term mental health issue (possibly several), now, we can't say if any of these were caused by cannabis use but one thing is for sure, it wont have helped.

Your perception of cannabis is just nonsense. It isn't turning people into violent, racist murderers. Your off your head. "It wont have helped" - how can you possibly be in a position to judge that cannabis has had a detrimental causal effect in a racist mass murder? Total ignorance.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

One person could carry a nuclear warhead.

But that's not the point. The original constitutional right to bear arms doesn't specify numbers or types. It certainly doesn't exclude biological, nuclear or chemical arms that hadn't even been invented in the latter 18th century. The fact that subsequent legislation does prohibit such weapons (including the nuclear warhead I referred to) is the salient point. You CAN legislate control on firearms without infringing the constitution, and even the NRA know that, despite the posturing.

My point really was addressing your 'technically' comment when technically has never, and will never come into it.

The Bill of Rights is open to modern interpretation, which is what happens every time it's challenged, seeing as every state has adopted different views on something that was immersed in the prevailing republican thought of the day. We got away from the right to bear arms, they could have too but the longer something is held on to, the harder it is to legislate for.

 

[Tobes]

Your perception of cannabis is just nonsense. It isn't turning people into violent, racist murderers. Your off your head. "It wont have helped" - how can you possibly be in a position to judge that cannabis has had a detrimental causal effect in a racist mass murder? Total ignorance.

You can't say it was definitely not a factor in how he ended up where he did. Paranoia and disengagement could well have been exacerbated by his use of cannabis and had an overall impact on his mental health.

 

[afcftw]

You can't say it was definitely not a factor in how he ended up where he did. Paranoia and disengagement could well have been exacerbated by his use of cannabis and had an overall impact on his mental health.

And cannabis use could well have had literally no impact whatsoever. My point being without much more information it's completely ridiculous to attribute any form of blame to cannabis rather than the nutter who went into a church and murded a load of innocent people. To automatically link the two is ignorant. And to automatically suggest it's a causal link ridiculous.

I think some people are obviously of a generation that they remember the reefer madness propaganda

 

[terrifictraore]

Your perception of cannabis is just nonsense. It isn't turning people into violent, racist murderers. Your off your head. "It wont have helped" - how can you possibly be in a position to judge that cannabis has had a detrimental causal effect in a racist mass murder? Total ignorance.

OK if you say so, I never said it would turn him into a racist murderer, what I did say is that it won't have helped his mental health issues.
If you don't believe me about the effects cannabis can have then just pop into your local acute MHU and see. Coniston unit in knowsley is nice.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Big difference between subjugation and extermination.

The slave trade yes, big British involvement early on, granted.

If you think that the climate of paranoia, fear, mental illness, racism and perceived persecution is even a fraction of the level they have in the US, then you live in a different country to me bud.

Britain was involved in slave trading for 245 years, that's a bit more than 'early on'! British ships carried 3.5 million slaves from Africa to America.

 

[Bodinki]

You can't say it was definitely not a factor in how he ended up where he did. Paranoia and disengagement could well have been exacerbated by his use of cannabis and had an overall impact on his mental health.

I think it is inarguable that cannabis does have long term side affects when it comes to mental health.
Though I smoked it all the time as a teen and all it did to me was make me eat lots of pizza and not want to get off the sofa, and laugh at unfunny movies.
Depends on the degree with which it is abused, and any pre-existing psychosis of the abuser, which, as you say, could have been exacerbated by cannabis abuse.

On the whole though, alcohol, a far more socially acceptable and legal drug, does far more harm to mental and physical health.
Even though I don't really partake, I would be in favour of cannabis legalisation, purely because there are other, far more dangerous drugs, that are legal.
To make cannabis illegal whilst allowing alcohol to stay legal is ridiculous.
But then I would probably legalise all but the most harmful drugs (Heroine, Crack and crystal meth), purely because there will always be a demand for them and at least if they were regulated, taxed and had appropriate age restrictions and health warnings, it would make them safer.
Anyone who wants to smoke cannabis will be able to, its pretty easy to get hold of, spending millions trying to police it is fighting a losing battle.

Same with prostitution. You will never get rid of it, its the worlds oldest profession and there will always be a huge demand for it.
At least if it was legalised and regulated, you would know that the women in the "bordellos" were a) of legal age b) Paid a fair wage c) doing it willingly and not being coerced or tafficked from other countries and d) had a clean bill of health.

 

[Tobes]

And cannabis use could well have had literally no impact whatsoever. My point being without much more information it's completely ridiculous to attribute any form of blame to cannabis rather than the nutter who went into a church and murded a load of innocent people. To automatically link the two is ignorant. And to automatically suggest it's a causal link ridiculous.

I think some people are obviously of a generation that they remember the reefer madness propaganda

It's equally ridiculous to deny the possibility that there was any sort of link.

Personally I think it's unlikely to be a major factor in what made him what he was, but you can't say it definitely didn't affect his pysche.

 

[Tobes]

I think it is inarguable that cannabis does have long term side affects when it comes to mental health.
Though I smoked it all the time as a teen and all it did to me was make me eat lots of pizza and not want to get off the sofa, and laugh at unfunny movies.
Depends on the degree with which it is abused, and any pre-existing psychosis of the abuser, which, as you say, could have been exacerbated by cannabis abuse.

On the whole though, alcohol, a far more socially acceptable and legal drug, does far more harm to mental and physical health.
Even though I don't really partake, I would be in favour of cannabis legalisation, purely because there are other, far more dangerous drugs, that are legal.
To make cannabis illegal whilst allowing alcohol to stay legal is ridiculous.
But then I would probably legalise all but the most harmful drugs (Heroine, Crack and crystal meth), purely because there will always be a demand for them and at least if they were regulated, taxed and had appropriate age restrictions and health warnings, it would make them safer.
Anyone who wants to smoke cannabis will be able to, its pretty easy to get hold of, spending millions trying to police it is fighting a losing battle.

Same with prostitution. You will never get rid of it, its the worlds oldest profession and there will always be a huge demand for it.
At least if it was legalised and regulated, you would know that the women in the "bordellos" were a) of legal age b) Paid a fair wage c) doing it willingly and not being coerced or tafficked from other countries and d) had a clean bill of health.

Agreed

 

[Bodinki]

Britain was involved in slave trading for 245 years, that's a bit more than 'early on'! British ships carried 3.5 million slaves from Africa to America.

I meant earlier in our countries history. We had abolished it for about 60 years before the Americans I think. (though one could argue with having lost America, we no longer had as much use for it)

 

[afcftw]

OK if you say so, I never said it would turn him into a racist murderer, what I did say is that it won't have helped his mental health issues.
If you don't believe me about the effects cannabis can have then just pop into your local acute MHU and see. Coniston unit in knowsley is nice.

Again you can't know that cannabis would have had a detrimental effect on his mental health. There are a lot of people who use cannabis to help with mental health problems. It depends on the person, the mental health issue, the levels of usage etc etc.... It's completely ignorant to just automatically attribute a negative effect on his mental health to cannabis. Even more ridiculous to automatically assume he is a cannabis user just upon hearing his crimes.

I am fully aware of how cannabis can have positive and negative effects on people's lives

But I stick by my point, it's total ignorance to see somene has committed a mass racist murder and assume they are a cannabis user and this somehow contributed to there actions.

 

[afcftw]

I think it is inarguable that cannabis does have long term side affects when it comes to mental health.
Though I smoked it all the time as a teen and all it did to me was make me eat lots of pizza and not want to get off the sofa, and laugh at unfunny movies.
Depends on the degree with which it is abused, and any pre-existing psychosis of the abuser, which, as you say, could have been exacerbated by cannabis abuse.

On the whole though, alcohol, a far more socially acceptable and legal drug, does far more harm to mental and physical health.
Even though I don't really partake, I would be in favour of cannabis legalisation, purely because there are other, far more dangerous drugs, that are legal.
To make cannabis illegal whilst allowing alcohol to stay legal is ridiculous.
But then I would probably legalise all but the most harmful drugs (Heroine, Crack and crystal meth), purely because there will always be a demand for them and at least if they were regulated, taxed and had appropriate age restrictions and health warnings, it would make them safer.
Anyone who wants to smoke cannabis will be able to, its pretty easy to get hold of, spending millions trying to police it is fighting a losing battle.

Same with prostitution. You will never get rid of it, its the worlds oldest profession and there will always be a huge demand for it.
At least if it was legalised and regulated, you would know that the women in the "bordellos" were a) of legal age b) Paid a fair wage c) doing it willingly and not being coerced or tafficked from other countries and d) had a clean bill of health.

Lots of intelligent thought in this post

 

[Bodinki]

Again you can't know that cannabis would have had a detrimental effect on his mental health. There are a lot of people who use cannabis to help with mental health problems. It depends on the person, the mental health issue, the levels of usage etc etc.... It's completely ignorant to just automatically attribute a negative effect on his mental health to cannabis. Even more ridiculous to automatically assume he is a cannabis user just upon hearing his crimes.

I am fully aware of how cannabis can have positive and negative effects on people's lives

But I stick by my point, it's total ignorance to see somene has committed a mass racist murder and assume they are a cannabis user and this somehow contributed to there actions.

Mate I have lots of friends who abuse cannabis to ridiculous levels.
Trust me when I say it definitely has a detrimental effect on mental health.
A fraction of the percentage of other, more socially acceptable drugs, but there aren't really ANY drugs, which, if abused, DON'T have long term mental side effects.
They warp your state of mind (to varying degrees i admit) so its inevitable that it would have long term effects if abused.

 

[afcftw]

It's equally ridiculous to deny the possibility that there was any sort of link.

Personally I think it's unlikely to be a major factor in what made him what he was, but you can't say it definitely didn't affect his pysche.

Agreed, I couldn't say it didn't effect him. I was more responding to the automatic assumption that he must be a cannabis user because he is a nutter.

 

[johnsonsbaby]

I meant earlier in our countries history. We had abolished it for about 60 years before the Americans I think. (though one could argue with having lost America, we no longer had as much use for it)

America was the destination for the slaves, the country itself never went out and captured and brought them home. We abolished slavery and their supply ended, although some 'illegal' smuggling still went on. The US was built on slavery and Britain was built on the vast sums of money the slave trade brought into the country.

 

[Bodinki]

Aye in the specific case of this Roof guy I have no idea if cannabis had any effect on it.
Possibly, I suppose.

All I would say to people who diss Cannabis, is how many deaths have there been that have been directly attributed to Cannabis, either via overdose or a person losing their mind and going on a killing spree? 0
Compare it to alcohol, which is legalised almost world wide.
How many people drink themselves to death every day, or get pissed up and get behind the wheel of a car and kill people, or walk on train tracks, or drown in pools cos they are hammered? 10's of thousands every year.

Yet Alcohol = Legal
Cannabis = Illegal
Makes no ****ing sense.

 

[LuisDiazgamechanger]

I am not a drug user, but the smell cannabis puts me off. It smells terribly. Some people argue that it help them one way or another..I believe small amout. If anyone takes it in large proportion the effect can be worst that drinking ten cans of special brew larger or any strong larger. If that person have a gun, any assurance that he's not going to use it?.