The argument/complete nonsense thread...

[petersaxton]

Your post said they were trying to attack city supporters and your action of kicking one of them was to stop it. Now you are posting that the Police attacked supporters.
Who is lying Peter? You bragged on here about your actions and maybe the glorifying is aimed at any poster who reminisced about past exploits of their youth!

At 5:17 pm yesterday I said: "Police were trying to attack some City fans"

Just now you say:
"Now you are posting that the Police attacked supporters.

Who is lying Peter?"

I said the police were attacking City fans the first time i mentioned the incident. Now in your deranged obsession to make out I am lying you say "Now you are posting that the Police attacked supporters". The emphasis is on NOW.

Clearly it is YOU that is lying. It's the same as you saying I was "bragging". Were you bragging in every one of your recent posts?

 

[Cityzen]

Unpacking the Homophobia of the “Rent Boys” Chant is Crucial

While knowing it’s homophobic should be enough reason not to use it, some may be confused as to the underlying meaning of the chant.

liverpooloffside.sbnation.com

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Simply, its a context thing. 'Rent boy' is of course a male prostitute, but its loaded to suggest that there is something wrong with a man having sex with a man.

Why do you feel the need to constantly defend the chant? I'll be honest, if I didn't want to be homophobic and I was told that the rent boy chant was homophobic, I just wouldn't do it.

Another explanation of how it started. And not in the 1960s as you posted.

https://www.thickaccent.com/2023/01/23/how-chelsea-got-tied-to-homophobic-rent-boys-chant/

 

[Drew]

You have come up with a video that is talking about LGBT football fans and rent boys but they are discussing this like we are.

Can you come up with an example of gay men being negatively referred to as rent boys? That is what you claimed.

I'm not defending the chant. I think it's silly. I dont think anybody really thinks that Chelsea fans have a lot of rent boys. It's just like the "sheep shagger" songs and a lot of other songs. They are not to be taken seriously.

Did the read the webpage I linked to too?

I know it’s not to be taken seriously. I haven’t been hopping mad about it. I’m pointing out the fact that rent boys has been used as a slur against gay people. It was used against me (which of course I would say that, you don’t have to believe it).

I don’t think it’s possible to give you the evidence you require as you seem to want the phrase to be used in a way it isn’t. You won’t accept that ‘rent boy’ in isolation is a slur against gay people. Thats not how language works.

‘In isolation’ the N word isn’t offensive. With the meaning it has it is. In isolation all words are just that, words. But when they are used against people they become offensive. In isolation, rent boys isn’t offensive. With context it is.

You don’t believe it, that’s fine. But the fact and history (oh, and the CPS) says otherwise.

We should probably leave it there. It’s Sunday night and I’m tired and I’m sure this is boring AF to most people.

 

[petersaxton]

Another explanation of how it started. And not in the 1970s as you posted.

https://www.thickaccent.com/2023/01/23/how-chelsea-got-tied-to-homophobic-rent-boys-chant/

I read the article, including the bit about "Fat" Frank Lampard. Everybody with an athletic body like Frank Lampard must be devastated to be called fat. Everybody who chants it should be jailed immediately!

 

[Ric Glasgow]

You have come up with a video that is talking about LGBT football fans and rent boys but they are discussing this like we are.

Can you come up with an example of gay men being negatively referred to as rent boys? That is what you claimed.

I'm not defending the chant. I think it's silly. I dont think anybody really thinks that Chelsea fans have a lot of rent boys. It's just like the "sheep shagger" songs and a lot of other songs. They are not to be taken seriously.

Breaking news:....48,000 Rangers fans arrested at the recent Rangers v Aberdeen match for accusing Aberdonians of bestiality which will probably be classified as a hate crime due to its 'hurty' nature.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

I read the article, including the bit about "Fat" Frank Lampard. Everybody with an athletic body like Frank Lampard must be devastated to be called fat. Everybody who chants it should be jailed immediately!

Loads on here call him fat....Shame on them the ****ing body shaming hypocrites.

 

[petersaxton]

Did the read the webpage I linked to too?

I know it’s not to be taken seriously. I haven’t been hopping mad about it. I’m pointing out the fact that rent boys has been used as a slur against gay people. It was used against me (which of course I would say that, you don’t have to believe it).

I don’t think it’s possible to give you the evidence you require as you seem to want the phrase to be used in a way it isn’t. You won’t accept that ‘rent boy’ in isolation is a slur against gay people. Thats not how language works.

‘In isolation’ the N word isn’t offensive. With the meaning it has it is. In isolation all words are just that, words. But when they are used against people they become offensive. In isolation, rent boys isn’t offensive. With context it is.

You don’t believe it, that’s fine. But the fact and history (oh, and the CPS) says otherwise.

We should probably leave it there. It’s Sunday night and I’m tired and I’m sure this is boring AF to most people.

I just think that if you claim that people say gay men are rent boys you should be able to find an example of people saying gay men are rent boys.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

If they seriously didn't realise the consequences despite all the warnings they deserve it.

Stupid maybe but arrested with a criminal record. No, **** off. Batshit ****ing bonkers Britain.
And it's not about old age, (so called "silly old ****s") it's having a bit of wisdom, perspective, common sense.

 

[Drew]

I just think that if you claim that people say gay men are rent boys you should be able to find an example of people saying gay men are rent boys.

Australian LGBTIQ+ politicians were hit with vile online abuse at the last federal election. The coming campaign could be even worse

New analysis of more than 100,000 tweets has found that queer Australian politicians suffer more personal abuse online than straight politicians.

theconversation.com

Liberal MP Tim Wilson, who had no involvement in the scandal, received over 2000 tweets explicitly mentioning the incident. Many were overtly homophobic, using terms such as “toy boy”, “rentboy”, “parasite” and “prayer room pervert”.

 

[petersaxton]

Australian LGBTIQ+ politicians were hit with vile online abuse at the last federal election. The coming campaign could be even worse

New analysis of more than 100,000 tweets has found that queer Australian politicians suffer more personal abuse online than straight politicians.

theconversation.com

Liberal MP Tim Wilson, who had no involvement in the scandal, received over 2000 tweets explicitly mentioning the incident. Many were overtly homophobic, using terms such as “toy boy”, “rentboy”, “parasite” and “prayer room pervert”.

Did any say that gay men are rent boys?

 

[TwoWrights]

Stupid maybe but arrested with a criminal record. No, **** off. Batshit ****ing bonkers Britain.
And it's not about old age, (so called "silly old ****s") it's having a bit of wisdom, perspective, common sense.

Wisdom, perspective, and common sense tells me if I'm going to join in with the chant I run the risk of arrest and a criminal record. That is all.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Stupid maybe but arrested with a criminal record. No, **** off. Batshit ****ing bonkers Britain.
And it's not about old age, (so called "silly old ****s") it's having a bit of wisdom, perspective, common sense.

Your mum tells you not to hit your sister or she'll take your toy off you. You hit your sister. She takes your toy off you. You burst into tears and claim it's unfair as you didn't know hitting was wrong.

 

[The Omega Man]

It’s funny isn’t it, well not really, how up in arms posters get because I called them silly old ****s and yet they defend an illegal chant!
How bragging about kicking a copper is not thuggery. When even in the broadest context we all know that what it is all about.

In all of the posts on this board and I mean all of them, maybe even the whole site. The bravest poster has to be Drew.

I do not understand the thought process or mindset of homosexuality, it’s not something that I can relate at all too. I understand stigma, in fact I actually do presentations on the stigma of social housing and have had success in changing attitudes and policies locally. I do this because I live in a council house and have lived in this one for 45 years. The stigma I face falls into insignificance compared to what Drew faces.

It takes time and education to change societal views. It sometimes takes changes in policies and laws. But at the heart of all change has to be the voice of those affected by stigma.

Thank you Drew for being strong.

 

[petersaxton]

This thread seemed to be hijacked by a discussion about chants.
Football fans try to wind each other up by singing songs and chanting about the other set of supporters.
They seem to use various subjects: losing, leaving early, being quiet, colour of hair, race, weight, sexuality, employment status, given some of the posts on here they could also include truthfulness and age.

I could be targetted for my age. Now I could get upset, maybe even suicidal, thinking I might die soon. Other people could get upset because they think they have a perceived inadequacy. I prefer to think that these are jokey football chants and they shouldnt be taken seriously. Differences (even diversity) could be seen as a fact of life. I have accepted my age and somebody trying to upset me about it will find they are wasting their time.

The solution could be to ban all critical chants and songs. How would it be enforced? Fines, bans, jail time?

Another solution could be to see chants and songs for what they are - part of football. Getting upset about slight teasing could be fuel for another song "you're going to cry in the morning".

The world is full of two types of people. Those who get offended and those who laugh off comedy insults. I know which camp I am in.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Clubs can now be charged by the Football Association if their fans use a homophobic chant that has been aimed at Chelsea players and supporters (11.01.2023).

The chant has allegedly been sung by Manchester City and Nottingham Forest fans in recent matches against Chelsea.

Manchester United fans also allegedly directed the chant at Everton boss Frank Lampard during Friday's FA Cup match over his links to the Blues.

The FA has always condemned the use of the chant.

On Wednesday, the FA said it has now written all clubs across the Premier League, EFL, National League, Women's Super League, Women's Championship and steps two to four of the pyramid to remind them it can "pursue formal disciplinary action against any club whose supporters engage in discriminatory behaviour", which now includes this chant.

In January 2022, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) classed the chant as a homophobic slur and said fans singing it during matches were committing a hate crime.

Those found to have used the words could face prosecution.

The FA said this "important step" in now being able to charge clubs, follows the recent successful prosecution of a fan for homophobic abuse, specifically referring to this chant.

It added: "These rules apply to the conduct of supporters at both home and away fixtures, and clubs at all levels of English football have a responsibility to ensure their spectators behave appropriately when attending matches.

"The FA takes all allegations of discrimination extremely seriously and would encourage anybody who has been subject to, or a witness of incidents of discrimination, to report it to the FA, the club or the relevant authorities so it can be investigated thoroughly.

 

[Drew]

This thread seemed to be hijacked by a discussion about chants.
Football fans try to wind each other up by singing songs and chanting about the other set of supporters.
They seem to use various subjects: losing, leaving early, being quiet, colour of hair, race, weight, sexuality, employment status, given some of the posts on here they could also include truthfulness and age.

I could be targetted for my age. Now I could get upset, maybe even suicidal, thinking I might die soon. Other people could get upset because they think they have a perceived inadequacy. I prefer to think that these are jokey football chants and they shouldnt be taken seriously. Differences (even diversity) could be seen as a fact of life. I have accepted my age and somebody trying to upset me about it will find they are wasting their time.

The solution could be to ban all critical chants and songs. How would it be enforced? Fines, bans, jail time?

Another solution could be to see chants and songs for what they are - part of football. Getting upset about slight teasing could be fuel for another song "you're going to cry in the morning".

The world is full of two types of people. Those who get offended and those who laugh off comedy insults. I know which camp I am in.

Peter, people are killed, shunned and attacked because of the fact they naturally are attracted to the same sex.

It would have been illegal for me to be in the relationship I’m in 60 odd years ago. I would be chucked off a building in other parts of the world.

Please don’t tell me homophobia is slight teasing.

 

[Evington]

Clubs can now be charged by the Football Association if their fans use a homophobic chant that has been aimed at Chelsea players and supporters (11.01.2023).

The chant has allegedly been sung by Manchester City and Nottingham Forest fans in recent matches against Chelsea.

Manchester United fans also allegedly directed the chant at Everton boss Frank Lampard during Friday's FA Cup match over his links to the Blues.

The FA has always condemned the use of the chant.

On Wednesday, the FA said it has now written all clubs across the Premier League, EFL, National League, Women's Super League, Women's Championship and steps two to four of the pyramid to remind them it can "pursue formal disciplinary action against any club whose supporters engage in discriminatory behaviour", which now includes this chant.

In January 2022, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) classed the chant as a homophobic slur and said fans singing it during matches were committing a hate crime.

Those found to have used the words could face prosecution.

The FA said this "important step" in now being able to charge clubs, follows the recent successful prosecution of a fan for homophobic abuse, specifically referring to this chant.

It added: "These rules apply to the conduct of supporters at both home and away fixtures, and clubs at all levels of English football have a responsibility to ensure their spectators behave appropriately when attending matches.

"The FA takes all allegations of discrimination extremely seriously and would encourage anybody who has been subject to, or a witness of incidents of discrimination, to report it to the FA, the club or the relevant authorities so it can be investigated thoroughly.

The penultimate paragraph is absolute bollocks. What can clubs do other than put out there not to do it and then some ****ing idiot goes and does it because the club have said dont do it.

It is society's problem just like all the other everyday issues.

The world is mad.

 

[balkan tiger]

Someone earlier mentioned that this month is football pride month or something like that, the post above mentions a letter sent to all clubs last Wednesday, Chelsea pride seemed to have been active last week no idea why but LGBT friendly pubs in hull were popping up on social media.
Putting all that together I think there was a pre planned campaign to highlight the situation and Hull City FA cup game just happened to be the conduit.
Not saying it was wrong and the chanting was right by the way.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Someone earlier mentioned that this month is football pride month or something like that, the post above mentions a letter sent to all clubs last Wednesday, Chelsea pride seemed to have been active last week no idea why but LGBT friendly pubs in hull were popping up on social media.
Putting all that together I think there was a pre planned campaign to highlight the situation and Hull City FA cup game just happened to be the conduit.
Not saying it was wrong and the chanting was right by the way.

'LGBT' friendly pubs? I've yet to drink in a pub that's turned someone away for being gay and in any event how would anyone know who's gay and what goes on in someone's private space...

Who's marginalizing who here?

Perhaps someone can list the LGBT "unfriendly" pubs in Hull ? The next time I'm down with my lesbian daughter I'll give them a swerve.

 

[balkan tiger]

'LGBT' friendly pubs? I've yet to drink in a pub that's turned someone away for being gay and in any event how would anyone know who's gay and what goes on in someone's private space...

Who's marginalizing who here?

Yeah I really struggled with how to word that whole post, my first post on this topic.

Please try and see the bigger point I was trying to make.

Some pubs attract mainly older customers, some attract a younger crowd, some pubs are frequented by bikers, others are popular with the LGBT.