The argument/complete nonsense thread...

[The Omega Man]

I was reasonably trying to stop the police attacking a City fan for no reason. It worked. They turned their attention to something else.

Quote Peter, just in case.
“Police were trying to attack some City fans so I went up behind one of them to carry out a "citizen's arrest" but could only manage to kick him.”

So the Police were trying to attack, trying. That’s your words Peter. You were a thug and now you’re a mug!

 

[petersaxton]

Quote Peter, just in case.
“Police were trying to attack some City fans so I went up behind one of them to carry out a "citizen's arrest" but could only manage to kick him.”

So the Police were trying to attack, trying. That’s your words Peter. You were a thug and now you’re a mug!

Are you saying I should have let the police physically attack the fans before intervening?
It my view that people should try to stop unprovoked attacks before they happen.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I'm not being rude.
You explained that you couldnt understand some very basic logic so I said I would try to make it as simple as possible.
You seem to be unable to even explain what it was that was difficult to understand.

Probably because it wasn't logical. I'm not sure how there's any link between heterosexual men and rapists beyond the statistic that most rapists are men and you're somehow seeing that as meaning heterosexual men for the sake of a really distorted strawman of a point.

 

[Drew]

I'm not being rude.
You explained that you couldnt understand some very basic logic so I said I would try to make it as simple as possible.
You seem to be unable to even explain what it was that was difficult to understand.

I don't follow the logic as 'rapist' hasn't been used as an insult against hetrosexual people.

'Rent Boy' has been used as an insult against gay men. Its a false equivalence.

 

[petersaxton]

I don't follow the logic as 'rapist' hasn't been used as an insult against hetrosexual people.

'Rent Boy' has been used as an insult against gay men. Its a false equivalence.

I said: "If you think there's a link between male prostitutes and gay men then you might be likely to think there's a link between rapists and heterosexual men."

Generally, male prostitutes are a subset of gay men and same with rapists being generally a subset of heterosexual men.

I've seen some women say that rapists are usually men. I cant recall the last time a gay man has been called a rent boy without any justification.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

I said: "If you think there's a link between male prostitutes and gay men then you might be likely to think there's a link between rapists and heterosexual men."

Generally, male prostitutes are a subset of gay men and same with rapists being generally a subset of heterosexual men.

I've seen some women say that rapists are usually men. I cant recall the last time a gay man has been called a rent boy without any justification.

Why would you be likely to think there's a link?

You still haven't answered the question of why you think rapists being men means it's heterosexual men specifically? That's your gap in logic, that's what Drew and others are calling you out for.

 

[The Omega Man]

It probably won't come as any surprise when I tell you he really isn't a 'silly old ****'! I've known him for many years, I'd vouch for the bloke 100% and I'm not sure why you've came to such a conclusion? He's one of the most caring,considerate and interesting people I've ever met and I've met many.

As for likening a police assault over here to being attacked in Belfast by a kid who was brought up to hate Brits,I really can't see the link,incidentally,my Brother in law was a Sergeant in the Siggies and had the same bricks thrown at him as you.

Ric, I didn’t directly call him a silly old **** in my post.
But the fact is that the chant is illegal and it cannot possibly be supported.

As for the comparison, I find thuggery is thuggery no matter the background. It’s the same mindset. No one should be bragging about kicking a copper or anyone else.
In my career, (not Police) I have been kicked, punched, spat on, run over three times, poisoned twice, had every type of fluid thrown at me and have scars from sharps. I am offended by posters glorifying their past thuggery.

 

[Drew]

I said: "If you think there's a link between male prostitutes and gay men then you might be likely to think there's a link between rapists and heterosexual men."

Generally, male prostitutes are a subset of gay men and same with rapists being generally a subset of heterosexual men.

I've seen some women say that rapists are usually men. I cant recall the last time a gay man has been called a rent boy without any justification.

Statistically, rapists are usually men. But hetrosexual men have not been referred to as 'rapists' by gay men. It doesn't happen.

I'll be honest Peter, it doesn't really matter what your opinion on it is, its a fact that gay men have been negatively referred to as rent boys. Its like me saying 'I can't remember if the sky is blue, its been grey the last few weeks because its been raining'. Its a literal fact that you seem to be ignoring.

 

[FER ARK]

Another subject that’s a candidate for the arguments thread?

 

[petersaxton]

Statistically, rapists are usually men. But hetrosexual men have not been referred to as 'rapists' by gay men. It doesn't happen.

I'll be honest Peter, it doesn't really matter what your opinion on it is, its a fact that gay men have been negatively referred to as rent boys. Its like me saying 'I can't remember if the sky is blue, its been grey the last few weeks because its been raining'. Its a literal fact that you seem to be ignoring.

Women say that rapists are men. I dont get upset about it because I know not all men are rapists.

"its a fact that gay men have been negatively referred to as rent boys"
Can you look on social media or the internet and provide an example?

 

[petersaxton]

Ric, I didn’t directly call him a silly old **** in my post.
But the fact is that the chant is illegal and it cannot possibly be supported.

As for the comparison, I find thuggery is thuggery no matter the background. It’s the same mindset. No one should be bragging about kicking a copper or anyone else.
In my career, (not Police) I have been kicked, punched, spat on, run over three times, poisoned twice, had every type of fluid thrown at me and have scars from sharps. I am offended by posters glorifying their past thuggery.

"bragging" and "glorifying" seems to be an out and out lie to justify your error.
Do you support the police for attacking City fans for no reason?

 

[DJBlackandamberarmy(No4)]

Another subject that’s a candidate for the arguments thread?

Not sure, I expect talksport analysis of the weekends games to also cover most these points tomorrow

 

[The Omega Man]

Women say that rapists are men. I dont get upset about it because I know not all men are rapists.

"its a fact that gay men have been negatively referred to as rent boys"
Can you look on social media or the internet and provide an example?

Peter no one has to prove anything. It is simple the chant is illegal.
If you want to argue it, take it to a judicial review. It only costs a few thousand.

 

[Drew]

Women say that rapists are men. I dont get upset about it because I know not all men are rapists.

"its a fact that gay men have been negatively referred to as rent boys"
Can you look on social media or the internet and provide an example?

Unpacking the Homophobia of the “Rent Boys” Chant is Crucial

While knowing it’s homophobic should be enough reason not to use it, some may be confused as to the underlying meaning of the chant.

liverpooloffside.sbnation.com

You must log in or register to see media

Simply, its a context thing. 'Rent boy' is of course a male prostitute, but its loaded to suggest that there is something wrong with a man having sex with a man.

Why do you feel the need to constantly defend the chant? I'll be honest, if I didn't want to be homophobic and I was told that the rent boy chant was homophobic, I just wouldn't do it.

 

[Ric Glasgow]

Ric, I didn’t directly call him a silly old **** in my post.
But the fact is that the chant is illegal and it cannot possibly be supported.

As for the comparison, I find thuggery is thuggery no matter the background. It’s the same mindset. No one should be bragging about kicking a copper or anyone else.
In my career, (not Police) I have been kicked, punched, spat on, run over three times, poisoned twice, had every type of fluid thrown at me and have scars from sharps. I am offended by posters glorifying their past thuggery.

You and I go back a long way and I'm fully aware of your career and the dangers that went hand in hand with it.

I'm not in the business of discussing past misdemeanours,especially on here,but let's be quite clear here,the police are not as squeaky clean as they're portrayed to be sometimes and I find it utterly bizarre that those on here who have accused police of brutality in the past have now, all of a sudden took a big U-Turn and decided that the Police are paragons of virtue and no-one should challenge or question that.

I've had issues with police in the past,no different from anyone else if they've abused their powers and went too far,I've acted accordingly.

Thuggery,not me...

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

I’m 70 this year and you are a being a silly old ****.
Are you offended that someone who is elderly is calling you silly or old or a ****.
So let me tell you what I find offensive about your posts.
When you was busy kicking a copper. I was probably in Northern Ireland being kicked by a **** like you.

Sorry pal, read the posts again, when did I say I was busy kicking a copper? No need to apologise, I'll put it down to old age.
And by the way, I might be an old **** but I'm not a silly old ****.

 

[The Omega Man]

"bragging" and "glorifying" seems to be an out and out lie to justify your error.
Do you support the police for attacking City fans for no reason?

Your post said they were trying to attack city supporters and your action of kicking one of them was to stop it. Now you are posting that the Police attacked supporters.
Who is lying Peter? You bragged on here about your actions and maybe the glorifying is aimed at any poster who reminisced about past exploits of their youth!

 

[petersaxton]

Unpacking the Homophobia of the “Rent Boys” Chant is Crucial

While knowing it’s homophobic should be enough reason not to use it, some may be confused as to the underlying meaning of the chant.

liverpooloffside.sbnation.com

You must log in or register to see media

Simply, its a context thing. 'Rent boy' is of course a male prostitute, but its loaded to suggest that there is something wrong with a man having sex with a man.

Why do you feel the need to constantly defend the chant? I'll be honest, if I didn't want to be homophobic and I was told that the rent boy chant was homophobic, I just wouldn't do it.

You have come up with a video that is talking about LGBT football fans and rent boys but they are discussing this like we are.

Can you come up with an example of gay men being negatively referred to as rent boys? That is what you claimed.

I'm not defending the chant. I think it's silly. I dont think anybody really thinks that Chelsea fans have a lot of rent boys. It's just like the "sheep shagger" songs and a lot of other songs. They are not to be taken seriously.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

So why is it only Chelsea that are sung about in that manner? Why isn't it a weekly chant?

 

[Trumpton Tiger.]

Your post said they were trying to attack city supporters and your action of kicking one of them was to stop it. Now you are posting that the Police attacked supporters.
Who is lying Peter? You bragged on here about your actions and maybe the glorifying is aimed at any poster who reminisced about past exploits of their youth!

I knew Pete when he lived in Hull and supported City as a teenager and I can vouch that the police did attack City supporters in those days. Not ambush them and give them a kicking obviously but it was old school policing. If they thought you were being unruly, and that covered anything from being over enthusiastic to actually causing trouble, they would escort you to the back of the South or East Stand, thump you around the ears and kick you down the stairs. Which was better then three months in North Sea Camp borstal which was introduced under Thatcher for any young football fan who fell foul of the police for anything they wanted to pin on you. I was thumped full in the face by a copper when I was running across the car park at Boothferry Park, he accused me of chasing someone, I was actually running for the bus so I wouldn't be late for my paper round, I was 14.
Football, people and policing was different in those days.
Don't remember too many people getting offended either.