Name change discussion

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The Omega Man said:
Jules

Sponsorship at the level that we will need will not be forthcoming, anyone with half a brain knows that. What could come in is investment based on the possibility of being more attractive to the Asian marketplace. If Assem Allam has been advised that Hull Tigers is the way to go, then he has been advised wrongly. We lost the chance to put this to Assem Allam because of the other name change application.

If the name change goes through there will be a loss of less than 10% of season ticket sales. In fact two other factors will be far more damaging than the name change relegation and a price increase.

Assem Allam wanted the KC to develop, something that you opposed. Without tangible assets the club has little value except its contracts and its brand. Assem Allam has invested in building the clubs contract asset, he invested in the player stock and the reward is the TV rights contract. The brand is the only other significant asset available.

I once believed that we should not just change the name of the club, but the whole principle of the clubs structure. I suggested that the club should change from HCAFC to Hull City Sporting Club and it should buy or invest in other professional local sporting clubs. It should build complexes that are capable of holding regional and national level events. Significant developments should be undertaken, such as turning Costello into a Hotel and county cricket ground simular to the Rose Bowl in Southampton. Developing sports based industries within the city to increase employment. I believed that Hull University and Hull City should develop a new centre for Sports Education.

As I said I believed in lots of things.

Because of my beliefs I read reports, attended meetings and lectures, developed contacts and tried to put together a viable plan. I spent hours doing the research to back up the plan.

Then things changed. The major banks involved in so many of the community based schemes got into trouble. Community assets where under scrutiny, government grants disappeared and investors who where once keen, shied away from even talking about putting their money anywhere near football.

So the inevitable happened, the only way the club can even start to stand on its own two feet is to be different, it has to become something that it isn't now. The name change isn't the solution. I do believe I know what the alternative is, but no one is willing to listen. Doors have become closed, its a pity, but that's the way of the world. Catering, matchday experience, more seats, forget it, not enough and not soon enough. The way forward is globalisation with major investor who needs global branding and who has the clout to do it.

But what do I know eh?
Click to expand...

I like the way everyone knows that for a fact
 
The Omega Man said:
No ****e comes from those who dont use a swear filter!

Your posts are playground based, schoolkid like. Post something worthy of debate or tell us how much money you have to put into the club.
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I don't go running to the press with my comments like that deluded fool. Likewise, I don't need to change my mind every week.
The guy says one thing and does another week in week out.
I put the same into the club as everyone else probably has (a season pass worth).
 
The Omega Man said:
Jules

Sponsorship at the level that we will need will not be forthcoming, anyone with half a brain knows that. What could come in is investment based on the possibility of being more attractive to the Asian marketplace. If Assem Allam has been advised that Hull Tigers is the way to go, then he has been advised wrongly. We lost the chance to put this to Assem Allam because of the other name change application.

If the name change goes through there will be a loss of less than 10% of season ticket sales. In fact two other factors will be far more damaging than the name change relegation and a price increase.

Assem Allam wanted the KC to develop, something that you opposed. Without tangible assets the club has little value except its contracts and its brand. Assem Allam has invested in building the clubs contract asset, he invested in the player stock and the reward is the TV rights contract. The brand is the only other significant asset available.

I once believed that we should not just change the name of the club, but the whole principle of the clubs structure. I suggested that the club should change from HCAFC to Hull City Sporting Club and it should buy or invest in other professional local sporting clubs. It should build complexes that are capable of holding regional and national level events. Significant developments should be undertaken, such as turning Costello into a Hotel and county cricket ground simular to the Rose Bowl in Southampton. Developing sports based industries within the city to increase employment. I believed that Hull University and Hull City should develop a new centre for Sports Education.

As I said I believed in lots of things.

Because of my beliefs I read reports, attended meetings and lectures, developed contacts and tried to put together a viable plan. I spent hours doing the research to back up the plan.

Then things changed. The major banks involved in so many of the community based schemes got into trouble. Community assets where under scrutiny, government grants disappeared and investors who where once keen, shied away from even talking about putting their money anywhere near football.

So the inevitable happened, the only way the club can even start to stand on its own two feet is to be different, it has to become something that it isn't now. The name change isn't the solution. I do believe I know what the alternative is, but no one is willing to listen. Doors have become closed, its a pity, but that's the way of the world. Catering, matchday experience, more seats, forget it, not enough and not soon enough. The way forward is globalisation with major investor who needs global branding and who has the clout to do it.

But what do I know eh?
Click to expand...

Really interesting post TOM.
 
PattyNchips2 said:
I like the way everyone knows that for a fact
Click to expand...

Patty we would need a sponsorship deal at around 15m per season.

Liverpool
Kit Sponsor: Carlsberg
Brewing giants Carlsberg have been principal sponsors of Liverpool since 1992. The deal between Carlsberg and the Merseyside outfit is the longest running in English football and costs the Danish corporation £7m per season.
Minor Sponsors: Paddy Power, PES 2009, MBNA, Thomas Cook Sport, Setanta, Lucozade Sport

Who is going to sponsor us for twice what Liverpool get?
 
I don't agree with wanting Mr Allam out. And I don't think there's many who do.

CTWD want to work with him, if there's a favourable outcome.

I also don't agree with some of the sycophantic types on here, and social media sites, brown nosing him like he's a demi god.
 
The Omega Man said:
No ****e comes from those who dont use a swear filter!

Your posts are playground based, schoolkid like. Post something worthy of debate or tell us how much money you have to put into the club.
Click to expand...

to be fair he's probably put in more than Allam - all he's done is get one of his companies to loan the club a load of money at a high rate of interest with the expectation that he will get it back one day - fans who buy their season tickets don't get that back with interest - if Allam had in fact gifted the money to the club then you may have a valid point but it was just another of his lies because it wasn't a gift - can you imagine receiving gifts at Christmas whilst at the same time being told the terms of when you will pay for them
 
PattyNchips2 said:
I like the way everyone knows that for a fact
Click to expand...

so Allam plonks in £30 million into Hull City, he owns the club and makes all the business decisions - and yet he / you expect someone to pay sponsorship of £20 mill a YEAR just to have their name on the shirt, no business decisions, cos no-one tells him how to run a business and the name has to be Tigers - don't be daft - he's ****ing clueless and it aint going to happen - and if you think it is then you're ****ing clueless as well
 
charon-the-ferryman said:
to be fair he's probably put in more than Allam - all he's done is get one of his companies to loan the club a load of money at a high rate of interest with the expectation that he will get it back one day - fans who buy their season tickets don't get that back with interest - if Allam had in fact gifted the money to the club then you may have a valid point but it was just another of his lies because it wasn't a gift - can you imagine receiving gifts at Christmas whilst at the same time being told the terms of when you will pay for them
Click to expand...

It doesnt matter if Asem Allam took the money out of his own pocket or if he moved the money around the businesses that he owns. You cannot really think that buying a season ticket to watch a football team play is any different to buying a season ticket for the theatre. You are a customer. Stop buying the ticket and you stop being a customer. If you invested you money in shares in the club, you become an investor, different expectation, different use of your money.

As for the loan, this is a normal business event, nothing wrong, it makes perfect sense.

The term gift is often thrown back at Assem Allam, his gift was simple, he stopped us the supporters from losing the club. No one else was prepared to put the money in. He made a mistake. When he first became involved he felt that if he could just stop the club from going into administration, he would "gift" the club to its supporters, but the hidden debts came out and he had to change that. He pumped money in, he had to, its a vicious circle, put more money in to protect the money that you have already spent. This all got out of hand and he could not give away over 50m. No excuses if this looks like I am supporting him, I am just posting what is in the public domain. You on the other hand are just posting ****e, that has no basis on fact.
 
charon-the-ferryman said:
so Allam plonks in £30 million into Hull City, he owns the club and makes all the business decisions - and yet he / you expect someone to pay sponsorship of £20 mill a YEAR just to have their name on the shirt, no business decisions, cos no-one tells him how to run a business and the name has to be Tigers - don't be daft - he's ****ing clueless and it aint going to happen - and if you think it is then you're ****ing clueless as well
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So what do you suggest he does then ?
We cannot operate forever at this level from a council owned 24,000 capacity stadium. That is the crux of the matter and the problem, not AA.
He is not a bottomless pit moneywise and he is unlikely to be the first human to live forever.
The name change does not make business sense to me either, but what are the alternatives?
Perhaps he has a huge sponsor lined up ?
If he hasn't then I would think that I sleep sounder then he does because his personal financial commitment is far greater then mine, and perhaps yours?
We need workable solutions not personal slanging matches.
As for clueless, how much did AA guarantee was available to sign Long and Jelavic ? Clueless would have been to sit back and spend nowt and pray we don't get relegated.
The benchmark is Manchester City. They too play from a council owned stadium but their council works hand in hand with the football club for the good of the area.
Man City are extending their stadium by another 20,000 to a 60,000 capacity. We are stuck with Fc and 24,5000. Level playing field eh?
Follow the Manchester City route and the name change becomes unnecessary.
 
The name change is already unnecessary. The only party stopping the club from working with the council is Allam. He's only interested in the name change. His own pride in showing everyone he won't back down is far more important to him than sponsorship etc. He just needs to be the boss. If it was about finances he wouldn't be such a prickly bastard when questioned about how it would actually help the finances.
 
charon-the-ferryman said:
to be fair he's probably put in more than Allam - all he's done is get one of his companies to loan the club a load of money at a high rate of interest with the expectation that he will get it back one day - fans who buy their season tickets don't get that back with interest - if Allam had in fact gifted the money to the club then you may have a valid point but it was just another of his lies because it wasn't a gift - can you imagine receiving gifts at Christmas whilst at the same time being told the terms of when you will pay for them
Click to expand...

So what rate of interest would CTWD get if they borrowed 30 million from a bank to buy the club?
 
I still am not convinced a name change will bring substantial funds into the club, simple as that. Why take a gamble like that for little gain and alienate genuine supporters. Makes no sense whatsoever. I do not believe there is any big plan, its just an old man wanting his own way.
 
originallambrettaman said:
I think you've missed the point with this whole fan ownership thing, if a trust took an involvement, it would be on behalf of it's members and it's members would fund it and own it.
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I'm not on about that charon said Allams loan is at a high rate of interest. Anyone who wants to borrow 30 million see what a bank would charge.
 
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