Name change discussion

Inline with Craig's suggestion, this thread is around for any general name change discussion from this point forward. This is not to restrict conversation, it's an effort to give it one place to happen so that people who aren't bothered either way can read the rest of the threads without them all becoming the same conversation, as has been happening recently. It's also to stop there being a new thread with the same conversation every time another journalist publishes an article identical to the previous 20 that were the same. Please read the bottom of this post (below the dashed line) before complaining, it should save me having to answer most questions about it. It's long, but it'll take you no longer to read this than it will to filter through the crap each day if I hadn't done this.

New threads are still allowed for the following:

1) Any official statement being made by the club, CTWD, any stakeholders in the club/decision, or the FA, or any official of those groups giving interviews on the matter (eg Scudamore as PL chief recently having the interview where he said he opposed the change, or the FL chief who gave one which suggested his panel may be in favour of the move due to potential benefits lower league sides could have which may be prevented by a no vote here). A general journalist or pundit expressing an opinion doesn't count.

Whether you care either way or not, I don't think you should need to read the whole of the name change thread to find out what the key people involved in the process are saying. The debate on these threads should be kept more about the implications of that person saying what they've said, rather than getting into the rights or wrongs of the name change.

2) Any merchandise launches related to it. At the moment we've just had CTWD with the scarves and memberships, and the PFTS t-shirts/sweatshirt threads. If anybody wants to produce and sell Hull Tigers branded gear then they're free to post links to buy it as well.

As with the previous section, I don't think these one off points should be things getting hidden in the main thread, there'll be people who are against the name change who aren't interested in discussing it all the time but who would like the merchandise. Also, as with the previous section, which ever side of the issue the merchandise launch is related to, the discussion on the threads should be about the merchandise itself rather than the issue of the name change. The PFTS thread(s) have been respected in this way so far, with the owner of the business being on the site getting feedback and looking to extend the range based on demand from customers without interference from the others. If someone does Hull Tigers gear I'd expect the same respect to be given to those threads, if a company is offering a service which is legal and is wanted by users on here then it should be left be.

3) Any other major development - eg other clubs doing something which suggests they're going to follow suit, stewards trying to seize banners in the ground again, that kind of isolated incident.

If other than the above exemptions anything is posted on other/new threads to try to change the subject to CTWD or the name change issue then it will be either deleted, or moved to this thread depending on the nature of it. If anyone repeatedly does it and it seems to be intentional then they'll be viewed as a WUM.

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I'm posting this off my account rather than the HC Moderator account partly because I haven't discussed this with the other mods yet, partly because I'm doing this as a trial run, and partly because I want to be able to put my personal views on the matter in this section of the post without it appearing as an official thing from all of us mods. So the following bit is me speaking as an individual, but as an individual who has to deal with the situation.

Firstly, I don't particularly like restricting where conversation can and can't take place, but in the past as a forum we've accepted things like restricting pictures of a certain nature to Miff's threads so that they can be easily avoided, and that during transfer windows we should have stickies for transfers (both City specific and for other clubs) rather than having the board flooded with threads about it so it's not unprecedented when there's a need for it.

Secondly, in the past when there's been a major issue affecting the club (eg Pearson leaving, Barmby getting sacked etc) as a group of moderators (either the current set, or OLM in the past) we've let the heated emotions run freely much more than we would have done under normal circumstances. People have been pissed off, we've understood it, let it be vented, and after a few days it's returned to normal. I don't see an issue with that, it's a passionate game and clamping down it at times like that tends to just piss people off even more.

Now the name change has created a major issue for the club, and obviously on here. As mods we've just left if alone except for when there's been outside interference by people who've stated they intend to disrupt things. It's got to the point now though where nearly every thread somebody on one side or the other tries to turn it into a thread about the issue. I'm getting sick of reading the same conversation between people on both sides who aren't going to change their views regardless of what's said. I'm somebody who actually wants to know the details of what's going on, so if I'm feeling like that there's clearly going to be a lot of people feeling the same way or who are even more tired of it.

We've got at least 6 more weeks of it, and potentially another 3 months of it as a minimum time for this to be rumbling on before the FA make their initial decision. With the potential for legal cases after that as well there's no point in us trying to just let it run it's course like previously, so I want to try to sort this out now, whilst I'm not as busy elsewhere as I have been.

I can't see why we shouldn't give Craig's idea a trial at least. It allows the conversations to still take place, whilst allowing people who are bored of the issue to read everything else without having to filter through each post. I do think we need the exemptions given, and for the reasons given. If I've missed any, or there's changes that can be made then feel free to suggest them and we can decide whether to add them or not. This is a particular point if anybody feels there's anything one sided about this idea being brought in. I've tried to balance it up, obviously with things like the merchandise issues there's only one side involved so far so I've had to just say both sides can do it, but if anyone feels there's anything about this that handicaps one side of the debate's case more than the other I'll try to correct it.

The point of this isn't to make the debate about the name change into the best debate in the world ever, it's about returning the rest of the threads to being about other things without them being hijacked. The easiest way to achieve that is for us as mods to have somewhere we can move the posts to instantly that it's accepted they will be moved to (ie this thread). If in a few weeks this isn't having the desired effect then we can go back to how it has been, if it is having the desired effect then we'll keep it and everybody except the wums will be happy about that.

 

A very fair attempt by Ricardo to improve the forum. Well done.

I think 90% of us want to minimise the aggro around the whole issue, and I'm sure more people will listen to the views of those campaigning against the name change if the debate is a bit more civilised than it has been.

 

Excellent.

 

Sounds sensible to keep the debate in one place barring something significant happening. Hopefully it will work and calm the rising tension of the previous days.

 

"For some, OK, this is justified, but for the most part, absolutely not. Example: Danny Graham, Hull City striker, pictured above. The guy hardly ever mark (2 goals in 34 matches PL in 2013, almost 2000 hours of play) and the only piece that plant this season (against Swansea on December 9), it pulls the face and content a papal wave hello as if returning from Lourdes where he had gone begging for a miracle, saying that he has worn the jersey Swan season and a half. This is grotesque"

 

it makes little to no sense when using google translate.
no wonder I didn't pass GCSE French, you have to speak gobbledygook to be understood.

 

FAO OLM, Any news when the next batch of memberships cards and wristbands are been posted?

 

Thanks

 

To be honest, I don't understand that decision. Allem is making the remarks and damaging the club, so some sort of an effort should be made to stop it. The campaign is anti-name-change and therefore I would have thought them against any remarks, from the club or elsewhere, that bring the campaign or its supporters into disrepute or disrespect. The campaign does not have to be toothless, the club is quite capable of defending its own corner, the FA is quite capable (I think) of deciding whether or not some form of sanction is appropriate; the campaign is the correct representative group to complain and set out our stall, saying very clearly - we are your customers and supporters, not the enemy and not ready to be insulted. You have an opportunity to take the rhetoric from the web/media and to formalize it and you have backed down, I find that amazing; if nothing else it would serve as a real indicator in how seriously the FA are taking it and offer them an opportunity to have something disciplinary to refer to in their final judgment.

 

I suspect an amount of the consideration relates to the need to still all work together after the name change. Going to war now would make stopping the name change a Pyrrhic victory.

 

I agree, that is clearly why the decision has been made, my point is that the decision is a poor one. As far as I (and everyone else) has been led to believe, AA will not talk to CTWD, but he finds it easy to be gratuitously abusive. A straightforward and honest complaint about the tone and contents of his remarks will not make matters worse; if they are deemed acceptable by the FA then fine, we know where we stand. Why should AA (the club) sit beyond the bounds of reasonable civil behaviour? CTWD cannot be everything to everyone; their primary goal is fighting the name-change and defending their supporters - a complaint is appropriate, timely and necessary - either that or accept he can say what he wants, when he wants, how he wants.

 

Wow. Seriously this was suggested, agreed and minuted? I can only speak for myself obviously but my view that CTWD wants Dr Allam out is based on the comments from CTWD members...actually more likely "supporters" than members looking at the membership numbers....seen on these and other forums. Not from Dr Allam.

 

I am not too sure how you arrive at that conclusion, Happy. Certainly I have made it clear that I would not be upset to see the back of him and I think I have seen one, maybe two others with a similar view (because I am on the extreme it does stand out for me); all of the statements by CTWD and most other anti-name-change posters clearly differentiate between their dislike of the name-change and their dislike of Allam, making it clear they do not want him to leave. To be fair, I do question just how sincere some are, but its a point not worth progressing. I note you say 'this and other forums' and I only follow this one, so my view is limited, but I don't think yours is representative of this board.

 

Then who are you against, if it is not him? You have made a huge effort to form a campaign group for no other purpose (initially) than to fight against the intention of AA (and therefore, the club) to change the name of our football team; he is the one who has it right in that he sees it as him against you, he has no clouded judgment, but I believe CTWD has.

When someone's behaviour is unacceptable and they refuse to accept that it is (even when many have condemned or mocked it), it is usually a very sound principle to put some formality around expressing your disapproval and the FA offers you just that. Public opinion means nothing to him, but business rules are his bread and butter - the sooner he realises he is in the football industry the better, the complaints procedure can serve a broader purpose and you should reconsider your decision.