Name change discussion

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Tobes said:
So he's leveraged the debt against the assets of his core business then? or is he using cash reserves to prop up City?

You're right, it's not easy to unravel, but it depends just how bloody minded he is. I would imagine that his son might be more pragmatic, here's hoping that he makes him see sense & stops him from doing something regrettable.
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He's leverage the debt against his main business and his main business is currently enjoying a £3.6m a year tax benefit from the losses incurred at City, but he's said that this transfer window is the last one he's spending in, as he's run out of funds and the club will have to be self funding from now on.

Quite how it's going to end up self funding, when so much cash is actually servicing the debt, I'm not entirely sure. He's right that he needs to increase revenue, he's just got no idea how to do it. One thing's for sure, pissing off all your existing customers and aiming to generate new income from places who don't give a **** about you, is a ridiculous way of going about it.
 
I say: let him go.
so the club has to start again?
we got up to the premier league before, we can do it again.
it may take another 109 years - but so be it
 
originallambrettaman said:
He's leverage the debt against his main business and his main business is currently enjoying a £3.6m a year tax benefit from the losses incurred at City, but he's said that this transfer window is the last one he's spending in, as he's run out of funds and the club will have to be self funding from now on.

Quite how it's going to end up self funding, when so much cash is actually servicing the debt, I'm not entirely sure. He's right that he needs to increase revenue, he's just got no idea how to do it. One thing's for sure, pissing off all your existing customers and aiming to generate new income from places who don't give a **** about you, is a ridiculous way of going about it.
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With relative ease would be my guess. As your turnover is about to increase by the £60m+ per annum TV revenue, compared to the circa £6m parachute payment you got last season. I know you've invested in players & the wage bill has significantly increased, but you should be showing a profit before amortisation this season.
 
David Conn ‏@david_conn
And if FA give in to Assem Allam's "Tigers," could send message to owners it is fine to load clubs with debts, because it cements control.

David Conn ‏@david_conn
Assem Allam buying club was originally a "gift to the City of Hull" now it's a loan heading towards £100m with 5% interest.

Oliver Kay ‏@OliverKayTimes
Struggling to take Allam "Tigers" ultimatum seriously. FA shouldn't either. If an owner is that impetuous, he needs to be reined in any case.
 
Tobes said:
With relative ease would be my guess. As your turnover is about to increase by the £60m+ per annum TV revenue, compared to the circa £6m parachute payment you got last season. I know you've invested in players & the wage bill has significantly increased, but you should be showing a profit before amortisation this season.
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We lost £30m last season, our income will increase by £60m this season, but we've doubled our wage bill and we're spending over £20m on players, our owner has already announced another projected £11m loss for this season.
 
Polly13 said:
Deano's interview was embarrassing. Thick, ill-informed and neither willing nor able to provide anything more insightful than the old "it's his club, he's put a lot of money in so he can do what he likes" nonsense.
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Exactly, he answered half the questions with the same answer.
No one listening can say they are any wiser to what's happening after that
 
originallambrettaman said:
We lost £30m last season, our income will increase by £60m this season, but we've doubled our wage bill and we're spending over £20m on players, our owner has already announced another projected £11m loss for this season.
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You lost £25m last season from what I can see.

The projected £11m loss won't be an operating loss though, that'll be post amortisation. So, in future seasons you won't be able to make massive capital outlays on players, but you should be capable of holding your own with a stable business platform to build from. You situation isn't bleak as it stands.
 
originallambrettaman said:
David Conn ‏@david_conn
And if FA give in to Assem Allam's "Tigers," could send message to owners it is fine to load clubs with debts, because it cements control.

David Conn ‏@david_conn
Assem Allam buying club was originally a "gift to the City of Hull" now it's a loan heading towards £100m with 5% interest.

Oliver Kay ‏@OliverKayTimes
Struggling to take Allam "Tigers" ultimatum seriously. FA shouldn't either. If an owner is that impetuous, he needs to be reined in any case.
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isn't it a bit late for that argument with the glazers having done just that?
 
Tobes said:
Fair enough mate, you're obviously passionate about it.

Do you think that if he'd have tackled this issue in a more consultative way, that you'd have maybe been more accepting of the name change?

I suppose what I'm getting at, is that it's been viewed as an attack on the heritage of the club, as opposed to a possible new chapter in the proud history of it & as an outsider that's been down to the way it's been handled as much as the name change proposal itself.

I suppose the ultimate test of whether that's the case or not, would be to answer honestly, that if he'd have turned up back when you were in deep trouble & said he'd chuck in £80m, get you into the PL, but he wanted to change the name to the Hull Tigers, would you have taken it?
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Last question first, and it's obviously easy to say it on a message board, but I would not have accepted his money with a name change proviso. I would have thought long and hard about it but still said no. I was ready to face Conference football back in '99 and I was ready to face administration or whatever before Allam arrived.
In regard to the current mess, I would have understood the reasons if he had done market research and could show tangible financial benefits to take the club forward, but I would still not follow a team other than Hull City.
As it stands, all I can see are financial negatives with loss of ticket and merchandise revenue, and an owner who gives no value to my lifetime support for the club. I run a business and, as the saying goes, it is only as good as the people who work here. The football side of his business is doing well because he employed the right person. What he should have done is employ a good marketing manager and public relations manager and allowed them to do their jobs with the same lack of interference he affords Steve Bruce.
To offend his customers in the way that he continues to do is business suicide, every customer has a threshold beyond which the product becomes unpalatable. Mine has just about been reached already, even without the name change, with other customers it is simply Premier League football.
 
PattyNchips2 said:
yeah true but what I mean is, didn't the glazers set a precedent for that?
AA is just following their lead?
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The Glazers borrowed the money to buy Manchester United from the club and used its income to repay the debt. They didn't have to keep dipping into their pockets to fund current spending unlike Assem Allam.
 
Geo10 said:
Covering it a lot this morning, brazil trying to get city fans to ring in! Windass has just been on, I don't think he quiet understands it either. He also thinks it's the minority against the name change, let's hope someone rings in who's a bit more clued up
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It started yesterday with Adrian Durham's Drive Time tosh and carried on. Alan Brazil's breakfast show carried it on as the daily papers are bigging up the story.

Dean Windass actually got it about spot on. It is now time to let this drop and see what comes of Allams name change. It can always be changed back if the so called big bucks dont arrive. This whole sorry saga is getting very boring now.

I would prefer Hull City, but Hull Tigers as PL club is much better than Hull City in league 2 or worse.

Furthermore, Hull City AFC actually died back in 1982 in a symbolic coffin stunt down boothferry road to the old ground.
 
originallambrettaman said:
According to the accounts, he has not repaid any of the loan amount, he's just taken the interest.

Though he's taking more than your suggesting, the interest is indeed currently £3.6m, but he's getting another £3.6m in tax advantages for Allam Marine and he and Ehab are taking another £1m in management charges. In short, 10% of our total income for this season will go straight into the AA's pockets.

Many will think he's deserved it, which is fine, but it does rather dispel the 'gift' claim.
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The "gift" claim is correct. Without AA and his millions we would not have a PL club. End of.

He is well entitled to do what he is doing imo.
 
originallambrettaman said:
He's leverage the debt against his main business and his main business is currently enjoying a £3.6m a year tax benefit from the losses incurred at City, but he's said that this transfer window is the last one he's spending in, as he's run out of funds and the club will have to be self funding from now on.

Quite how it's going to end up self funding, when so much cash is actually servicing the debt, I'm not entirely sure. He's right that he needs to increase revenue, he's just got no idea how to do it. One thing's for sure, pissing off all your existing customers and aiming to generate new income from places who don't give a **** about you, is a ridiculous way of going about it.
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Good article here on finance issues

http://twohundredpercent.net/?p=25235
 
What baffles me is with all the financially astute business whizz kids who post on this board, all knowing and seeing, why the hell did we need Mr Allam's millions in the first place? George Osbourne must be knocking down Not606 doors to help him with his current difficulties!
 
The FRENCH TICKLER said:
It started yesterday with Adrian Durham's Drive Time tosh and carried on. Alan Brazil's breakfast show carried it on as the daily papers are bigging up the story.

Dean Windass actually got it about spot on. It is now time to let this drop and see what comes of Allams name change. It can always be changed back if the so called big bucks dont arrive. This whole sorry saga is getting very boring now.

I would prefer Hull City, but Hull Tigers as PL club is much better than Hull City in league 2 or worse.

Furthermore, Hull City AFC actually died back in 1982 in a symbolic coffin stunt down boothferry road to the old ground.
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I disagree entirely with that statement, in fact if you'd said Hull City as a PL club is better than Hull City in league 2 I'd still disagree. I couldn't give a **** which league we're in, there are as many aspects about supporting City back then that I prefer to now, as there are that I prefer now to then.
 
wotnoash said:
What baffles me is with all the financially astute business whizz kids who post on this board, all knowing and seeing, why the hell did we need Mr Allam's millions in the first place? George Osbourne must be knocking down Not606 doors to help him with his current difficulties!
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Lmao @ ^^^^ this. Thank god that Mr Allam is in charge of our club eh ? Good post.
 
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