Finances chat

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Kittenmittons, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    211
  2. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    This is what I meant. What you have said in the bottom quote contradicts the top quote. He doesn't have carte blanche, you're right that he has an obligation to the supporters and clients.

    Anyway, like I said, we can argue until the cows come home, but I think the new investment is a good thing however it plays out as long as FPP have oversight over Donald's use of club funds.
     
    #282
  3. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    I think he should wait for the facts really. I think we can all read between the lines of Charlie's comments, but in the next few days you'd expect a more detailed look at what FPP are getting from the 'investment' or 'loan' or however we're framing it.
     
    #283
  4. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    21,687
    Likes Received:
    10,285
    He does have carte blanche and a responsibility to the supporters, no contradiction at all ....

    .... if he wants to sell/keep the club, sack the manager, whatever, he can do it.

    Now that the Americans are involved his power and influence will reduce, but he's still in control.
     
    #284
    Roppa likes this.
  5. BigPete

    BigPete Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1,566
    Likes Received:
    1,573
    Puppet?

    Actually that sounds bad but you know what I mean, he is in control at the club but at the end of the day he isn't.
     
    #285
    Smug in Boots likes this.
  6. Nostradamoose

    Nostradamoose Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2019
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    147
    That bloke (who is definitely, definitely not @Kittenmittons) really needs to let this go. He started off saying the investment was a good thing, now he's back to picking holes in it and he'll soon be back to implying that they're up to no good.
     
    #286
    HeatonMackem likes this.
  7. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    And yet here I am, disagreeing with him saying that. Loon.
     
    #287
  8. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    I just posted in another thread, but I have to post this here because there's possibly been some positive movement on the debt between Madrox and SAFC. <badger>

    First caveat - we don't know anything 100%, but I was happy to take Donald's words as evidence of the debt in the summer, and I'm happy to do so now as regards paying it off.

    He said the following more than once in very clear terms:
    • That he, Sartori and Methven are now owed £20m by Madrox
    • He has personally put over £20m into the club
    Interpretation: The most logical reason that he would be owed £20m by Madrox and that he could state that he had put £20m+ into the club, would be that he, JS and CM loaned Madrox the money to pay the £20m+ debt to SAFC that was outstanding (the one I discussed in the OP).

    Why would he do this now? The most likely explanation is pressure from an outside party - most likely FPP - to reduce the amount of financial risk to SAFC. We know from CM a few weeks back that money was put in over the last month by the 3 owners of Madrox. Doing it as a loan from their companies to Madrox and then putting the money back into SAFC effectively means that even if SD went bankrupt, it would not mean that SAFC lost money (as the arrangement up until now would have meant).

    Could this be bullshit? I don't think so. Donald has never ever been so clear about the amounts he's invested, and he knows that frankly, more than one person will be poring over the words he speaks. To repeat a number of times that he has put £20m+ in of his own money, and say twice that Madrox now owes he, JS and CM £20m+ is highly specific and clearly based on recent changes.

    After listening to hours of him speak over the last 6 months, this was the clearest he's been about his money, and I don't think it's a coincidence that he's able to be more categorical now that he has addressed the major financial issue that probably made him feel a little bit cagey in previous interviews.

    Upshot: Taken at face value, the fact that he has serviced this much of the debt is the best news we could have hoped for. He has really, genuinely changed my opinion of him if he has put his own money into the club to service the debt, regardless of who or what made him decide to do it now. It's fantastic news for the club and in my opinion, with Donald now wanting to show FPP that money coming into the club is being used properly, I think the chances of him doing the same thing again are roughly zero.

    As I said from the start, all I ever cared about was this enormous debt being addressed while we are in the **** rather than left with the club absorbing all of the risk of it not being paid back. Assuming that is now resolved (and unless one day there is a plausible reason to think otherwise) then jobs a good un. Whatever his failings, he has at last done the right thing for the club and he deserves enormous credit for doing so.
     
    #288
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  9. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    21,687
    Likes Received:
    10,285
    That's a massive post just to say 'I was wrong'.
     
    #289
    Porterfield73 and Nostradamoose like this.
  10. Flash Gordon

    Flash Gordon Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    207
    Likes Received:
    213
    This whole situation confuses me to be honest.

    Donald took the parachute payments out of the club and would feed it back "as and when it was needed" as confirmed by Charlie. Is the suggestion that it has all been put back in?

    Then why has the club needed an extra £20m of our owners money when from all previous talks, they've mentioned expenditure of around £15-18m a year?

    Have they put in additional cash to go alongside the FPP £10m or is the club a lot further from being sustainable than we realised?
     
    #290

  11. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    211
    I don't think that's correct and if he had paid the club what it is owed he would be owed closer to £37m from Madrox.

    Madrox owes £20m to SD because that's how much SD has so far personally paid for Madrox to buy the club and to fund other club things on behalf of Madrox (who don't have a bank account). This isn't a new £20m. To put it another way, if Madrox had a bank account, SD would have loaned £20m to Madrox, allowing Madrox to pay £15m to Ellis Short and £5m to the club. As far as we know, Madrox still owes the club £17m.
     
    #291
    Nostradamoose likes this.
  12. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    Madrox do have a bank account, it's actually redacted on the charge sheet
     
    #292
  13. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    Except... I wasn't? I knew someone would say something along those lines. Everything I said was likely very very close to the facts, and now they're hopefully addressing it.
     
    #293
  14. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    211
    They have now but they didn't in the last accounts. But that doesn't change anything else I said.
     
    #294
  15. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    By the last figures stated from the owners in the summer, the debt from Madrox to SAFC was around 20m. Donald said yesterday that the £20m was on top of the amount he paid for the club I believe.
     
    #295
  16. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    211
    No, it was £20m total of his own money spent so far on everything safc.
     
    #296
    Nostradamoose likes this.
  17. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2019
    Messages:
    663
    Likes Received:
    328
    That was a pretty specific figure though, one he hasn't given before. I thought that was quite different.

    I will say my only doubt was that he didn't categorically say they've paid off the debt, but I attributed that to a) not wanting to acknowledge that the debt was ever an issue and b) that it might only be say, 80% paid off.
     
    #297
  18. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2019
    Messages:
    192
    Likes Received:
    211
    Like I said, if he had paid off almost everything owed to the club, Madrox would owe him closer to £37m.
     
    #298
    Nostradamoose likes this.
  19. ShaolinKungFu

    ShaolinKungFu Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2019
    Messages:
    128
    Likes Received:
    149
    :emoticon-0102-bigsm
     
    #299
  20. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    21,687
    Likes Received:
    10,285
    You have no idea when things were addressed.

    You seem to be attempting to suggest that the 'addressing' came after your comments, perhaps as a result of them. In reality I doubt that guesswork, which much of your 'facts' are, on a chat forum, would affect a £multi-million deal. Everything that you're saying might be right, but it might also be totally wide of the mark. It's not just you, but everyone has to accept that they're posting opinions based on half of the story.
     
    #300
    Nostradamoose and Montysoptician like this.

Share This Page