Finances chat

Not enough detail to answer.

 

I have read all the posts again and this is my summary / take on things of things (please feel free to correct where I have it wrong)

SD bought the club for £15 million with ES being responsible for the £25 million SBC debt
ES paid off the remaining debts
SD then made a huge mistake by announcing he bought the club for £40 million, it he had said £15 million, none of this would have really been noticed
The club received the PP and they were used to pay of the £25 million debt to ES

JS bought 20% shares in the club, as yet no one knows if they went straight in SD's bank or into the club.
If they went in SD's Bank, then as a shareholder he has no obligation to not trouser that money, if they went in the club then great

There was a loan from Close Brothers taken out for £12 million pound at the end of the season / start of the summer for reasons unknown, but more than likely cash flow etc which is being paid back / has been paid back by this years PP money

At the time of the takeover the club were losing somewhere in the region of £500k per month, which ES was covering

We are now after cost cutting etc hoping to break even this year

Next year as we all know our costs will far outway our income and even by reducing the costs further we are financially ****ed so need investment

SD is now looking for that investment / has potentially secured it with our American friends

Is that about the top of bottom of it?

 

There is though. Its covered in the FFP rules you cited. If the money is retained they don't look back through the accounts, as long as it's money retained from the previous year in our current year accounts, it can be used.

 

No. In Stewart Donald's words, the bulk of that loan paid off Ellis Short. Short then lifted the charge relating to the share purchase (the 15m that had become 12m)

 

Ehhhhh? Absolutely ****ing not mate

Apparently I didn't go to enough lengths the other day for some. I went to greater lengths in terms of referencing things so that people could see the facts and because I knew some peoples default position would be to ask how we could be sure, but I've done nothing 'extreme' and actually, I would be happy for Donald to stay if he gives us a schedule for repaying the loans. Simple really.

This is why I remain anonymous, because you've decided that it's something sinister, when in fact, I really am a concerned fan.

 

The deal was £40m for a debt free club. ES wanted to leave it debt free and SD wanted to take it debt free. But the payments to ES were actually structured as £15m plus £25m of debt left behind. I don't think there was a mistake in saying the deal was £40m for a debt free club.

 

I guess my summary is wrong and SD did / does owe the club £25 million then?

 

Point me to the rule you're talking about.

 

The £20m stated by CM in June is being repaid to the club gradually and/or will be reduced by the sale price if SD sells any of his shares to new investors (instead of SD receiving the cash for the sale of his shares, the cash goes to the club).

 

So in your opinion, nothing really untoward, just awful accountancy practice?

 

I can’t ignore blatant hounding of the owners based on assertions that are so clearly wrong and irrelevant. I’m not a Stewart Donald apologist, or a Charlie methven acolyte , I am however sick to death of the negativity Of ill informed nut jobs like you spread for only one of two purposes, you want to make my club fight within itself or you are seeking attention, I personally think it’s the latter, I think in your head you aren’t damaging the club and it’s at best fragile support given where we are, I think you need some help for this munchausen like behaviour.

 

So your saying they owe the club more than £20 million?

 

Yeah, in a nutshell, unless that money has been accounted for between July and now, it's likely he owes at least another £6m on top of that.

Roppa, do one. You are a Donald apologist. Reading through your posts on this board, you've made about 5 posts that don't explicitly defend him or way hes great. It's weird to pretend otherwise.

 

Ergo, since we will make a net profit this season (£5m at last estimate) we should theoretically be able to add £5m in owner funds, and on the off chance that the EFL decides (illogically) that the money can't be used for player wages (which it quite clearly can) it could be used in 2020 if carried over as a cash reserve into the next accounts once audited.

 

Should also point out that if there is a cash reserve from 18-19 (which we don't know) that would also count towards our revenue that could be used for FFP.

 

@Kittenmittons you are confusing profit reserves with cash reserves. Accumulated Profit reserves, as referred to in the SCMP rules, is the accumulated retained profits/losses since the company was formed. As at 31/07/2018, the club had negative reserves (losses) of £249m. I don't think SD/CM are quite good enough to turn that around in a couple of years! So there is no income to add to our SCMP limits from appendix A 2.8.

 

Do cash reserves not count toward FFP?

 

Which is being drip fed back as needed or taken into account if / when the club is sold?

Therefore no real issue?

 

I think the rules on offsetting losses changed a couple of years back, so that figure is effectively not going to matter now, particularly as we are, by the owner's description, debt free.

As long as he pays it back, I'm happy. My concern is that he has said he won't be doing that before July next year, and actually, he foresees a £5m profit this year as something to offset next seasons £5m loss if we're still in league one.

Essentially, shows no intention of paying back any of his debt in the near future.

 

No