No it doesn't. Equity is income for selling new shares (or financial instruments similar to shares i.e. not debt). Donations are giving money to the club without obligation or the release of any obligation. Neither include the repayment of a loan which is what SD/Madrox will be doing when repaying the £20m.
I think again, you're misunderstanding their wording. They're saying that if the club took out a loan, that would not count as revenue. Receiving money they have loaned out would of course count as revenue, as it is money that is coming in that can be used to pay player wages, which is the entire point of SCMP. Plus: It would be entirely possible for Donald to put more money into the club and for the club to separately wipe off debt, but again, this would be completely unnecessary, as the rule is there to stop a club taking out a loan as 'revenue', rather than having one repaid.
Nonsense! The parachute money was income which counts towards the turnover for SCMP. That parachute money was used to pay off ES/SBC, which created an amount owed to the club by SD/Madrox. When SD/Madrox repay that money to the club, it doesn't count again as income for SCMP, that would be double counting it. Also, there is no mention of loan repayments included in SCMP turnover, see below from https://www.efl.com/-more/governanc...appendix-5---financial-fair-play-regulations/ 2 Football Fortune Income – Definitions Football Fortune Income includes the following revenue streams on the basis that they can reasonably be regarded as a “bonus” to Clubs during the Reporting Period. 2.1 EFL Cup and EFL Trophy Distributions – Include any EFL Cup or EFL Trophy prize money and facility fees on an actual basis. Budgets should assume the Club does not progress past Round 1 of any competition. 2.2 Football Association Distributions – Include any FA Cup prize money and facility fees on an actual basis. Budgets should assume the Club does not progress past Round 1 of any competition. 2.3 League Parachute Income – Include all Parachute income receivable from The League for the relevant Reporting Period. 2.4 Net Transfer Income – Include actual cash received in the year from other clubs by way of Compensation Fee, Transfer Fee and / or Loan Fee (in these Notes, “Transfer Fees”), less any actual cash paid to other clubs by way of Transfer Fees. Any advances of Transfer Fees from organisations such as Close Leasing can only be included where the instalments being advanced against fall due within the Reporting Period covered by the relevant SCMP Submission. 2.5 Donations – Donations from independently run lotteries, PFA contributions for Private Medical Insurance, small gifts from benefactors, donations towards Player salary costs, payment for taxation losses etc. are allowable.Significant donations must be evidenced by a bank receipt or statement to show funds have been credited to the Club’s bank account by the end of the relevant Reporting Period.To be included in the Club’s SCMP Submission, a signed Letter of Guarantee (in the format required by The League from time to time and which as at the date of these Rules, is as set out in Appendix D) must be received by The League to confirm that there is no interest linked to the donation or any requirement for future repayment of the donation by the Club. 2.6 Cash Injections – Significant cash injections from companies or benefactors must be evidenced by a bank receipt or statement to show funds have been credited to the Club’s bank account by the end of the relevant Reporting Period.To be included in the Club’s SCMP Submission, a signed Letter of Guarantee (in the format required by The League from time to time and which as at the date of these Rules, is as set out in Appendix D) must be received by The League to confirm that there is no interest linked to the cash injection or any requirement for future repayment by the Club of the cash injection. 2.7 Equity Injections – Only include non-redeemable Equity investments received (or to be received) in the relevant Reporting Period. The: 2.7.1 conversion to Equity of any debt; and/or 2.7.2 writing off of any debt, where such debt was created in any prior Reporting Period, does not constitute a form of revenue as no cash is provided to the Club to finance wages in the current Reporting Period. Further, any linked transactions whereby loans are repaid followed by an injection of cash in exchange for Equity, will not be allowed. Any injection of cash as Equity must be evidenced by a bank receipt or statement to show funds have been credited to the Club’s bank account, and a copy of the signed Companies House forms confirming the issue of new share capital must be received by The League by the end of the relevant Reporting Period.To be included in the Club’s SCMP Submission, a signed Letter of Guarantee (in the format required by The League from time to time and which as at the date of these Rules, is as set out in Appendix D) must be received by The League to confirm that the Club’s shareholder(s) will inject the necessary Equity into the Club prior to the end of the relevant Reporting Period. 2.8 Accumulated Profit – Only include reserves extracted from audited Annual Accounts that have been filed with Companies House. For the avoidance of doubt any revaluation reserves do not qualify for inclusion. 2.9 Other Income – To be assessed on a case by case basis. 3 Other Notes
But that money went out, and it did so not to pay a club debt, but as a loan. We didn't spend it, so although it counted as income in that year, the net benefit of it was neutral, as it was also loaned out again in the same financial year. if that money comes back in in a future financial year, why would it matter that it had been counted in a previous year unless that money had been spent? It is revenue, because it is money that can be used towards player wages. That is what SCMP is there for, to assess the club's ability to pay wages, not to be it's accountant.
I will also say - I don't think it's mentioned because it's super-unusual for a club to be owed this amount of money by it's owner this low down the leagues, rather than the other way around. There is no mention of it not counting, and they are quite specific about the reverse scenario.
So are you saying that has SD actually done something very clever by "loaning himself money"? He could repay that money over the next 3 years and that would be considered a cash injection which would assist in meeting SCMP requirements. Genuine question as i'm getting confused
It doesn't matter what you spend the income on. It's just sets the limit on how much you can spend on players. Otherwise, you could keep loaning money out and receiving it back again to artificially boost income for SCMP! No, it's not in there because it doesn't count as income. Night!
Yeah I get what you're saying - but it's not artificial is it? Unless the money was being spent each time by the club and then falsely loaned out to circumvent SCMP, the SCMP rules aren't arbitrary or binary, they know when something is within the spirit of it. As they say, they judge on a case by case basis. Because we genuinely did loan that money out and await it's repayment, why should we not be able to count it as revenue in future years when it is paid back?
I will be honest, I don't think there is a rule for this There certainly isn't a specific thing that says yay or nay. I don't think that's why he's done it, but it may provide a longer term help to us. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't be asking the question of the EFL, because if he repays £4m next season, for example, then there is no reason why that would not count. Also, @HeatonMackem, I refer you to this very important point: Like I said, you're thinking of this as double dipping, but theoretically, if the funds are genuinely leaving the club via a loan and returning, and there's legitimate evidence for the transactions (which there will be) then it should be counted, because it can be used to pay player wages can't it?
Tbh, the only way you'd be able to convince people would be to create another account and... Never mind
Totally different posting style and area of expertise. Kildare doesn't give much of a **** for the club or its fans while Kitty cares a little too much.
That's pretty much how I see it. SD has tried to play the yanks but they have turned around and said "we can wait". So now it's a case of SD getting us promoted somehow and making a sizable profit or taking quite a big hit from the yanks.
'Arguing with people' on an entirely unconnected forum, and using terms like 'moron' isn't helping your crusade tbh. You'll find yourself banned if you keep that up.
Oh, I didn't realise you were a mod. How about, if the mods here let me know there's a problem with using the word 'moron' about someone not on this forum, I'll listen to them? I've seen you trying to police this forum quite a lot recently. Also seen you talking in that weird way that some celebs do about how your critics are obsessed. Maybe you're starting to believe your own hype a bit. Remember we're all just people, none of us are more special than each other.
Woke up to see you’ve been well beaten in your logic on this argument by heaton, well done him. Whilst I couldn’t be bothered to go in to the detail, it was obvious it was coming, now that you’ve been proved wrong will you do what you said on rtg, and if anyone can prove you wrong you’ll stop posting? Or will you continue your tin foil hat crusade? Let’s see, I know where I’m putting my money!
The rules clearly say that parachute money should be included in the income calculation. The rules do not say anything about loans in being added to income. There's the evidence you asked for. But anyway, let's assume there's a huge hole in the EFL rule book and they forgot to mention that something that would never be treated as turnover in the accounts is treated as turnover for SCMP and I'm wrong! This would actually mean SD has done us a huge favour by not repaying the £20m until next year when our actual income drops. Well done SD!
If you read the detail, you'd know that neither of us were 'right'. Also worth remembering that if they put £10m in this season, and it was not spent, it would count towards FFP next year if it was carried over. That's right isn't it @HeatonMackem? Roppa you are infinitely the worst for these digs. From day one you've been hounding me and demanding I stop talking. It's bizarre, just go to another thread and ignore me you gonk.
I agree. I'd be saying the same if he pays the £20m back. Like I said, he could start by putting some of it in now, and retaining it this season as cash at bank, in addition to the profit he projects. That would put us in a great position for next year in regards to SCMP/FFP. Glad we're agreed.
No one goes on A FORUM and goes to these lengths unless they have an agenda. No way on Earth is KM just a concerned fan. Dark arts at work here trying to turn fans against the owners. KM.needs outing to show exactly what the agenda is.
Chris Weatherspoon also has a chippy demeanour and condescending tone. I know you're definitely not him but if he wants internet glory he can't afford to carry on like a spoilt brat. If he was here I'd recommend sacking off social media and sticking with accountancy, he'll make more money, annoy less people and his blood pressure will be one hell of a lot lower
