Finances chat

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Kittenmittons, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. Sandy Camel

    Sandy Camel Well-Known Member

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    Bang on. The thing is, we got badly burned being in the richest league in the world because this didn't happen, money was pissed away. Now we've already been somewhat scorched the one and only time we went out and spent big money at this level on Grigg.

    Investment to me is not having millions to spend on player transfers and wages. It's about getting a club scouting and analytics department up and running, trying to get some of the best youth coaches around in for the academy, getting the best staff for the medical and fitness side of things and providing an up to date working environment for all that to happen in. If the entirety of that American investment is spent on this I would have no complaints, as long as we get some snazzy fast pint dispensers in the place.
     
    #381
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  2. Sandy Camel

    Sandy Camel Well-Known Member

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    I should be able to give more than one like for this post.
     
    #382
  3. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Well-Known Member

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    No. The £5.4m was SAFC's to spend. SAFC only paid £7m on behalf of Madrox so only that much gets added onto their loan. Or to put it another way, the unused £5.4m was used to pay back Close, and SAFC kept £5.4 of the future parachute money to spend itself.
    None of us know what all the ins and outs were. All we can go by for now is that SD has said he has spent a total of £20m so far on all things SAFC.
    £9.6m will be the amount owed to SAFC because it is a group undertaking i.e. Madrox owns SAFC so it is in the same group of companies. £27m will be the total owed to SBC/SD/CM/JS. All as at 31st July 2018, not long after SD took over.
     
    #383
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  4. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    Thank god I retired as an accountant a few years ago, otherwise I might find all of this interesting
     
    #384
  5. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    The first bit is what I agree with, that's what I've been saying for months, that the liability (ie: the balance of the loan actually paid out on behalf of Madrox for SD's shares) needed to be added to their debt to us yeah.

    re: the 18-19 accounts:

    Madrox paid someone £9.6m with that cash. It was (imo) likely SBC, as we know the Short debt wasn't cleared until the Close loan in April. The other options are... Donald? Surely he wouldn't have paid £5m and then had it paid back to him by the club in parachute payments so quickly, so the only realistic option is SBC?

    But that means that Donald's initial £5m likely wasn't a loan to Madrox, as it would have come through before the end of the accounting period and also been classed as a debt to a group company on those accounts, is that right?
     
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  6. OldNewtown

    OldNewtown Active Member

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    I thought it was accepted that the Maja transfer cancelled monies that we owed for, was it, Khazri?
    We didn't actually receive any money on his sale.
     
    #386
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  7. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Not sure, this is why as I was saying it is a minefield trying to work out that part of it or assuming much. I'm inclined to believe Donald did put some money in for Grigg btw.
     
    #387
  8. Arlyman

    Arlyman New Member

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    Hi - I know there's already lots of summaries on this already - but let me know if my understanding below is correct/makes sense at a high level -

    SD said Madrox paid 40M to short (15m for shares, plus picking up 25M of his debt)

    SD said on he has put in about 20M total so far.

    Short's 40M has been completely paid off now. I read/heard that some of the parachute payments etc were used for the other 20M needed to do that.

    If the above is true then Madrox 'in debt' to the club ~20M. (Not counting any JS and CM inputs)

    As its an 'internal debt' between Sunderland Ltd and the Madrox holding company, there's also no legal requirement to pay it back (is that right?), but there are stated good intentions to do so as needed.

    However Madrox has now borrowed ~9.3M ($12M) from FPP which does have to paid back, or else SD loses his 20M invested to date and FPP takes control.

    This money has been put into the club, so the amount 'owed' to the club by Madrox has been reduced by ~9.3M.

    Very hard to write this out simply. I know I missed a ton out there, but is it something like that in the big picture?
     
    #388
  9. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Well-Known Member

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    I missed off ES from the list included in the 27m. Easy to miss one. :emoticon-0105-wink:

    You do know double entry bookkeeping, don't you?! You seem to be quite confused by it. Madrox didn't have a bank account so everything paid on its behalf has a double effect on either assets or liabilities. So SD/CM paid £5m directly to ES. In the Madrox accounts £5m that was owed to ES is now owed to SD/CM (reduces one liability and increases another).

    Then by 31st July they must have used £9.6m of SAFC's parachute payments to pay some of the SBC debt. That moves £9.6m from amounts owed to SBC to amounts owed to SAFC. Of the other £27m, that leaves about £15m owed to SBC, £7m owed to ES, and £5m owed to SD/CM.
     
    #389
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  10. HeatonMackem

    HeatonMackem Well-Known Member

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    No, it doesn't reduce the amount Madrox owe SAFC because Madrox owed SAFC a extra £9m for the new shares issued by SAFC to Madrox.
     
    #390

  11. Arlyman

    Arlyman New Member

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    Oh ok, so Madrox effectively bought 9.3M worth of new SAFC shares, money which the club can now use as FY20 income, but continues to owe SAFC the same amount as before?
     
    #391
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  12. Sin Semilla

    Sin Semilla Active Member

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    No from the start you've been insufferable.

    Then after a month on the takeover thread people had enough and someone made a thread dedicated just for you and your inquest.

    It got deleted and then after a week it was decided by the users and mods this is the best solution. So reinstated, now here we are.
     
    #392

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