Finances chat

Discussion in 'Sunderland' started by Kittenmittons, Oct 29, 2019.

  1. old lads fan

    old lads fan Well-Known Member

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    I think he's referring to the posters who seemingly want to stop him posting, there's one poster who stated he is mentally unstable.
    If people don't like his posts don't read them.
    This is getting like RTG on here.

    Ronnie
     
    #341
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  2. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

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    Of course they shouldn't read them, but to be fair he does often refer to his finance theory and seems happy to mention it a lot. Then when people mention it or question it, it resorts to name calling.

    As I said, calling the entire board a bunch of ****ers is hardly going to endear you to the board
     
    #342
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  3. Safcman73

    Safcman73 Member

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    What has she had to say like
     
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  4. Sunderpitt

    Sunderpitt Well-Known Member

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    I need my pc to cut and paste it, will do it tomorrow, if nobody does it meanwhile.

    However repeats what 'where's me trousers ' says it's a loan on the stadium and training ground and if there is a default wr belong to the yanks... or so my reading it understands
     
    #344
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  5. old lads fan

    old lads fan Well-Known Member

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    I agree with your last sentence but he does get quite a bit of **** off 4 or 5 posters who all seem to like each others posts.
    To be honest I think he takes a lot before he is provoked into name calling.I don't agree with some of his posts but I wouldn't troll him for likes.

    Ronnie
     
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    Last edited: Nov 14, 2019
  6. Nacho

    Nacho Well-Known Member

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    The debate about our finances has been done to death now and followed into the afterlife for good measure, there's nothing wrong with this board if you just want to have a chat about football or whatever else you like. That's what we're here for after all.
     
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  7. Hettonista

    Hettonista Member

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    Here you are:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/nov/14/sunderland-chairman-9m-loan-stewart-donald-fpp-us-company-denies-chancer

    The Sunderland chairman, Stewart Donald, has described his decision to borrow £9m from a group of United States-based investors as a “win-win” scenario for the League One club and claims he and his co-owners, Charlie Methven and Juan Sartori, are shouldering all the risk.

    Donald acknowledges that defaulting on the loan would hand control of Sunderland to FPP – a company established by three American billionaires, Glenn Fuhrman, John Phelan and Robert Platek, with links to Michael Dell, of Dell Computers – but said he had made the arrangement for the club’s long-term good.

    When FPP put €12m into Sunderland last month Donald presented it as an investment but no fresh stake had been taken and the money was a loan to Madrox, the holding company which owns the club. The money is secured against assorted assets including the 49,000-capacity Stadium of Light and the Academy of Light, a modern Premier League-calibre training ground.

    It initially appeared a high-risk remortgaging but Donald, talking to BBC Radio Newcastle, conceded that, were he and his co-owners to default on the loan, Sunderland would simply fall under the control of FPP.

    The Americans would gain a club relegated from the Premier League in 2017 after a decade in the top tier for a bargain £9m, and the owners would lose the money they have put into Sunderland since buying out Ellis Short in a complicated £40m deal last year.

    “The investment we have got – or loan, if you want to call it that – is into our holding company Madrox, and that owns Sunderland in its entirety,” Donald said. “The money is secured against everything Madrox owns.

    “So the only exposure, in reality, is for Juan, Charlie and I, because if we don’t make good on the repayment, all that basically happens is – what quite a lot of Sunderland fans want, I think – is that the guys who have lent us the money will have control of Madrox. We’d lose the money that we have invested, that would go into the ether, and the American investors would get the lot.

    “They have invested into us, we will invest that money in Sunderland, and if we don’t invest it well or if we don’t make any repayments on the terms we have agreed, then it defaults to them. It’s a win-win for the club. Sunderland has got no debt; the ones that have the debt is ourselves to the Americans.”

    Sartori, a Uruguayan businessman, owns 20% of Sunderland, Donald has a 74% stake and Methven a minority holding. The chairman is confident they will not lose their investment. “It won’t be defaulted,” he said. “We can get the money. Juan could put the money in tomorrow, I could put the money in. I could have asked Juan –who indeed offered – to put in the same amount of money as FPP but the idea was to get these guys.”

    Donald talked of FPP potentially investing in business throughout the north-east and dismissed suggestions he and his co-owners were “chancers”, out to make a fast buck.

    “One thing that isn’t fair, that isn’t right, is that we have come here as chancers to cash in and take the money,” he said. “We could have quite easily walked away with £30m-plus profit in the summer – we’ve had a lot of people interested in the club – but we chose not to do that because the idea was to bring in quality investment. The Americans involved are globally reputable, they have wonderful connections.”
     
    #347
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  8. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

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    That's a fair point, but in my experience on here I haven't noticed anyone specifically trolling for likes.

    Either way, trolling or abuse isn't the best way to get a point across in my opinion
     
    #348
  9. ned_werby

    ned_werby Member

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    I have deliberately swerved getting any more involved with pretty much anything KM posts these days. On one side, he's posting what he believes (my italics) to be genuine concerns about the financing of the club, albeit in a non-specific, 'throw enough mud and some of it is bound to sick' sort of way and at least takes the time to give his reasoning. On the other, he deflects contradictory opinions and refuses, or is unable, to even attempt to provide solid fact-based evidence to support his theories. And has now been proved, when evidence surfaces from the club which reduces his beliefs he pays lip service with a 'well done by them, it's what I've wanted them to do all along', as if he's Miss Marpled them into a confession and reparation. Add to that his frankly bizarre stance in refusing to approach the club with his queries and concerns through perfectly normal and acceptable channels (RAWA etc.) because of his concerns for his safety (you what???) and you can see why he appears more of a WUM than is normal.

    Perhaps if more people decided not to respond to him, or resort to his abuse (and he can be abusive) in kind, things would chill out a bit.

    Anyway, that is definitely my last word on the matter...........lol

    PS - why do you end all your posts with 'Ronnie'? Just curious......
     
    #349
  10. T_Bone

    T_Bone Steak

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    Cos he’s called Veronica ?
     
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  11. old lads fan

    old lads fan Well-Known Member

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    Ronnie is my name, is it not the done thing to sign off a message?
     
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  12. ned_werby

    ned_werby Member

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    My aunt (rip) used to get 'Ronnie'. Her name was Margaret.
     
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  13. ned_werby

    ned_werby Member

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    So you're not called "Old" ?
     
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  14. Rocky

    Rocky Well-Known Member

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    Fixed your post there hew

    Rock
     
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  15. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for recognising this. @Chunksafc like I said, the board is basically impossible for me, because anything I post is treated with hostility and judged by a different standard to others. It bugs me that you consistently pick up on me daring to react in the same way.

    And again, if you want to talk about my posting, that's one thing, but what is with the critique of me as a boss? I'm actually too nice to my staff I think, I've never shouted at anyone (I'm in tech, what would I shout at someone for? :D )

    It's those type of digs that I'm talking about. Casting aspersions about me because under extreme provocation I sometimes cannot keep up a mask of indifference is just as bad.
     
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  16. old lads fan

    old lads fan Well-Known Member

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    Just by my daughter and niece. I'm simply called Old Man cos I retired at 59 so I must be old lol.

    Old Man
     
    #356
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  17. Kittenmittons

    Kittenmittons Well-Known Member

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    I did consider the first part as a possibility, but he has never been clear about it like he was... it was interesting wording.

    As for the £15m last year and £5m since, I don't know. We know he paid £5m up front, and he negotiated £3.4m off the remainder leaving £6.6m, but we also know he paid that £6.6m off via a loan from SAFC in the first instance.

    So even if he paid the Short/Close loan back (and that was one of the main things) I'd say that was a big win. I guess he could mean that if he put in £5m deposit, £5m cash flow funds,and repaid that £6.6m, but classed all of that as a loan from him to Madrox (and therefore effectively, the club) it would be 'the best part of £20m' that he describes.

    Oh dear. Maybe not as ideal as first thought, but I do hope he's paid off the Close loan, and if he's intending on impressing FPP hopefully he's also going to do things with the club first from here on in.
     
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  18. Chunksafc

    Chunksafc Well-Known Member

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    I consistently pick you up? I have hardly posted all week and have suggested that calling the board a "bunch of ****ers" isn't a good way to proceed.

    As for being under extreme provocation, do me a favour
     
    #358
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  19. Roppa

    Roppa Active Member

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    Lol, thank god he’s not an armed copper he’d be shooting litter throwers!
     
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  20. Smug in Boots

    Smug in Boots Well-Known Member

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    “The investment we have got – or loan, if you want to call it that –is into our holding company Madrox, and that owns Sunderland in its entirety,”

    I've no idea of the legalities but, as far as I'm concerned, if we've taken money from the Americans it isn't a loan.

    There's absolutely no point in them loaning us money, for a period, then taking it back at some point.

    After all the flights, due diligence, feasibility studies, Companies House registration, etc, this isn't just a loan.

    IMO they'll take over the club by one means or another.
     
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