Match Day Thread Leicester City vs Southampton - Saturday 9th May K.O. 3:00PM

[SotonOldBoy]

Started watching the match yesterday and after the 2nd goal I shut down the laptop. Have not done that since our return to the Premier League, always believed we had a chance to get a goal back but the last 5 away games have been so hard to watch and trying to understand what has gone wrong. We do not seem to press like we have done for the last two seasons. That was something that teams took note of when we played them. Everyone was amazed how fit we were and how we pressed high up the pitch, this has gone away. Also, we have started to hoof the ball instead of playing out of the back and passing through midfield. We criticize teams like West Ham and QPR when they play at St Mary's by shooting HOOF whenever they kick the ball up field and we are now doing the same thing. I understand that we have injury issues but the team philosophy should not change with injuries. I agree with the previous comment regarding Clyne, I think his head is somewhere else as his performance and desire appear to have diminished since January. When you remember how we played at Old Trafford and Newcastle you shake your head and say WTF.

 

[st_brendy]

I get the impression that there's this myth that in the first three months of the season, we were winning our games by comfortable margins. The reality is, even with our main players fit (Morgan, Vic, Toby, Forster etc) and on form (Pelle, Tadic, Clyne etc), our results still included 0-0 with WBA, 1-0 Hull, 1-0 Swansea, 1-1 Villa, 2-0 Leicester, 2-1 QPR, 1-0 Stoke. The two north east home thumpings have to be put into context somewhat, because both sides are your typical 'heads drop when it's going against us' teams.

Now this is in no way a criticism of us early season. Only in the Swansea game did we arguably come away with more than we deserved. But the fact remains that we were not miles ahead of the rest, we were not winning games at a canter. It is therefore of no surprise to me that once the forwards lost their form, and injuries started to disrupt what was a very settled and secure back seven (FF, NC, JF, TA, RB, MS, VW) - in my view, those seven were the main reason why our first three months were so good - we've slipped back a little bit, and it only needed to be a little bit to find ourselves on the other side of the slender *** paper between so many 'lesser' PL teams. 0-1 WBA, 0-1 Swansea, 0-0 West Ham, 1-2 Stoke, 0-1 Everton, 1-2 Sunderland, 0-2 Leicester. These are not hammering defeats just like the above were not hammering victories.

Fine margins. Fine, fine margins. To enable us to regularly be on the right side of those fine margins, we need most, if not all, of our best XI to be available and on form. But over 38 games that simply isn't an option without having a very deep squad which is packed with quality underneath. And for that reason we are not miles better than the West Ham's, the Stoke's and the Swansea's. Fine margins.

 

[SotonOldBoy]

I get the impression that there's this myth that in the first three months of the season, we were winning our games by comfortable margins. The reality is, even with our main players fit (Morgan, Vic, Toby, Forster etc) and on form (Pelle, Tadic, Clyne etc), our results still included 0-0 with WBA, 1-0 Hull, 1-0 Swansea, 1-1 Villa, 2-0 Leicester, 2-1 QPR, 1-0 Stoke. The two north east home thumpings have to be put into context somewhat, because both sides are your typical 'heads drop when it's going against us' teams.

Now this is in no way a criticism of us early season. Only in the Swansea game did we arguably come away with more than we deserved. But the fact remains that we were not miles ahead of the rest, we were not winning games at a canter. It is therefore of no surprise to me that once the forwards lost their form, and injuries started to disrupt what was a very settled and secure back seven (FF, NC, JF, TA, RB, MS, VW) - in my view, those seven were the main reason why our first three months were so good - we've slipped back a little bit, and it only needed to be a little bit to find ourselves on the other side of the slender *** paper between so many 'lesser' PL teams. 0-1 WBA, 0-1 Swansea, 0-0 West Ham, 1-2 Stoke, 0-1 Everton, 1-2 Sunderland, 0-2 Leicester. These are not hammering defeats just like the above were not hammering victories.

Fine margins. Fine, fine margins. To enable us to regularly be on the right side of those fine margins, we need most, if not all, of our best XI to be available and on form. But over 38 games that simply isn't an option without having a very deep squad which is packed with quality underneath. And for that reason we are not miles better than the West Ham's, the Stoke's and the Swansea's. Fine margins.

Good post Bendy and good analysis, puts the season into a better overall context and confirms the belief that we need a deeper squad. The issue there is that, like in the case of Jack Cork, if all the players want 90% playing time and if we cannot guarantee that, they want to move on.

 

[Saintmagic]

Not really interested ini being competitive in both competitions, tbh. I'd like to stick around Europa long enough not to embarass ourselves to hopefully get some games for guys like JWP, Reed, Targett, and Gardos. And some of the academy players as well, if possible. But that's all.

10-15 players is a ton. At that point I think you are sacrificing quantity for quality and there's just too many new players at once. Just 5 good players, and a couple of squad filling loans/backups is about all we can do. Assuming Clyne and Schneiderlin (and maybe Rodriguez) are the only ones we lose.

Well if we lose Clyne and Schneiderlin, and don't make any of the loans permanent (so that is Alderweireld, Elia and Djuricic gone aswell) that straight away is 5 first team players gone from a squad that is nowhere near the size needed for a European campaign. If J-Rod stays then he is like a new player as he didnt play at all this year. I remember Ferguson saying that all teams need 3 new players season on season to keep things fresh and moving, so by replacing the players that leave and going along with Ferguson's theory that is 8 players. Throw in the squad being too small as I mentioned and I could see another 2/3/4 coming in from somewhere.

I am not saying go and sign all these players as that would be ridiculous but say 4/5 come from the u21 team to help fill up holes in the squad. As an example Stephens, Turnbull, Hesketh, Mugabi, Gape and Gallagher (may have missed some aswell) all look potentially to be good enough to be backups in their respective positions and play the odd game in the Europa League against some of the lesser opposition.

 

[st_brendy]

Good post Bendy and good analysis, puts the season into a better overall context and confirms the belief that we need a deeper squad. The issue there is that, like in the case of Jack Cork, if all the players want 90% playing time and if we cannot guarantee that, they want to move on.

Without a doubt. Why would you want to sit on our bench, when you can start every week for Swansea or West Ham? It's not like sitting on our bench will still enable you to pick up £100k+ a week, have realistic opportunities to win medals, and still manage to start 15+ games per season.

For me, it's probably the single biggest argument in favour of us qualifying for the EL. Extra games means more game time for the players beyond our first XI. But it's catch 22 because it only works if you have those players (of sufficient quality) beyond your first XI. Getting deep, decent squads is difficult without more games to play in. Having more games to play is difficult without having a deep, decent squad.

I guess it boils down to what the board would do (note, this is not what they would want to do or plan to do, but what they ACTUALLY do) over the summer, should we qualify for the EL.

 

[Lovelocum]

I get the impression that there's this myth that in the first three months of the season, we were winning our games by comfortable margins. The reality is, even with our main players fit (Morgan, Vic, Toby, Forster etc) and on form (Pelle, Tadic, Clyne etc), our results still included 0-0 with WBA, 1-0 Hull, 1-0 Swansea, 1-1 Villa, 2-0 Leicester, 2-1 QPR, 1-0 Stoke. The two north east home thumpings have to be put into context somewhat, because both sides are your typical 'heads drop when it's going against us' teams.

Now this is in no way a criticism of us early season. Only in the Swansea game did we arguably come away with more than we deserved. But the fact remains that we were not miles ahead of the rest, we were not winning games at a canter. It is therefore of no surprise to me that once the forwards lost their form, and injuries started to disrupt what was a very settled and secure back seven (FF, NC, JF, TA, RB, MS, VW) - in my view, those seven were the main reason why our first three months were so good - we've slipped back a little bit, and it only needed to be a little bit to find ourselves on the other side of the slender *** paper between so many 'lesser' PL teams. 0-1 WBA, 0-1 Swansea, 0-0 West Ham, 1-2 Stoke, 0-1 Everton, 1-2 Sunderland, 0-2 Leicester. These are not hammering defeats just like the above were not hammering victories.

Fine margins. Fine, fine margins. To enable us to regularly be on the right side of those fine margins, we need most, if not all, of our best XI to be available and on form. But over 38 games that simply isn't an option without having a very deep squad which is packed with quality underneath. And for that reason we are not miles better than the West Ham's, the Stoke's and the Swansea's. Fine margins.

So essentially what you're saying is the margins are not that big? Fine would be an appropriate way of describing them?

 

[Lovelocum]

Without a doubt. Why would you want to sit on our bench, when you can start every week for Swansea or West Ham? It's not like sitting on our bench will still enable you to pick up £100k+ a week, have realistic opportunities to win medals, and still manage to start 15+ games per season.

For me, it's probably the single biggest argument in favour of us qualifying for the EL. Extra games means more game time for the players beyond our first XI. But it's catch 22 because it only works if you have those players (of sufficient quality) beyond your first XI. Getting deep, decent squads is difficult without more games to play in. Having more games to play is difficult without having a deep, decent squad.

I guess it boils down to what the board would do (note, this is not what they would want to do or plan to do, but what they ACTUALLY do) over the summer, should we qualify for the EL.

If we can free up osvaldo and gastons sallary it will help enormously.
We won't buy 10 players I see us buying 5 max. Replace Schneider and clyne, new GK, new striker and attacking mid.

 

[Mikey]

Maybe Mikey, but a premier league player deserves to be roasted and put in the stocks for pulling out of a tackle against a powerhouse like Wes Morgan... Oh no, it was the frail and flimsy Mahrez. That play should never have got further than Davis putting in a proper tackle in the first place. All the other stuff was ifs and buts and maybes. A simple block tackle kills it all and even if Davis doesn't win that tackle, a strong attempt means the ball pings off somewhere else, not at the players feet.

He doesn't pull out, it's hard to tell from that angle and I wasn't quite sure looking at it at first but looking closely in slow-mo and basically frame-by-frame, I'm pretty certain what happens is Davis comes in with his left and stretches to plant his foot to get the ball which he does, it deflects towards Mahrez and Davis tries to poke it with his right foot but it just gets to Mahrez first. Davis' weight is going the wrong way and has had to turn his body to be able to balance lunging with his left and then right foot, and so Mahrez gets away from him. So he put the tackle in but a deflection just favours Mahrez, and it's not exactly like Davis is a powerhouse himself if he is unable to get the ball I wouldn't expect him to just block or outmuscle Mahrez. For me Davis did what he could and followed his M.O., he tried to put in a simple tackle without being able to use much physical power, it wasn't that good and then he got the unlucky side of a deflection but he chased and harried before getting done badly on the edge of his own box which personally I don't think is an outrage for an AM vs another AM. Reed on the other hand didn't do what he normally does and what is expected of him, by far his main strengths are tackling and pressing the ball with great energy, he got sold in pretty similar circumstances to Davis (if anything considering how far away he got from the ball it was even worse) and then didn't chase back and attack the ball or cover the most dangerous area Mahrez could go. Basically, I'm not surprised for Davis to not clean out man and ball when making a tackle and I'm not surprised he got beat squared up in 1v1 on the edge of his own box, for the player he is and the role he was in, that's just going to happen. However Reed didn't do what he's supposed to do both by his DNA as a player and his role in the team and thus I don't see how Davis can be blamed more than him. Also in terms of ifs and buts, the problem is that it did happen, everyone involved after that still has to do their job and is responsible, if Mane gives the ball away up the pitch and then on the counter attack Jose get's nutmegged three times and they score do we not place more blame on Jose even though it wouldn't have happenedif Mane didn't give the ball away?

 

[Onionman]

Not read anyone else's comments yet so here's a fresh take now I'm home.

Horrible journey to the match with the A43 blocked for a while for a serious accident, so arrived very frazzled just before kick off. I was looking forward to a good game with Saints rejuvenated by Ron's motivation after last week..

Team came out and I was glad to see Gazza out there. If he doesn't play, how will we know if he's improved under pressure?

Then the game started and I found myself watching Leicester versus Romsey old people's home second XI. It was woeful almost from the off. I'm very rarely critical of Saints but it was awful. No flow, no desire to attack quickly, not much of anything at all, really. Seven minutes in, I hoped we might recover, but when the second went in, the players appeared to stop even half-heartedly chasing the ball. You know it's a bad day when Victor is being bullied off the ball. I seriously - seriously - started to think that perhaps we're secretly trying to throw the Europa, such was the lack of any kind of desire.

Gazza was decent bar the clearance that led to the goal. That could be blamed on him, but I thought it was more the fact that our defence drifted off towards the ball leaving Mahrez all on his lonesome. It would have been rude of him not to score.

Clyne (whose name adorns Onionman Jr's shirt) was so bad that even Jr thought he should have been taken off. He was being consistently skinned and not one cross on target from him that we could recall.

Mané is an embarrassment with his constant diving and amateur dramatics. He needs to be taken aside and told to pack it in. He's a good player but he's starting to look like a bit of an idiot with his constant play acting. It just leads to refs ignoring when he really does get clattered.

The only real light on a very dark day was Reed. Never stopped running, trying, tackling. A diamond in a coal mine.

When we were pressing like mad under Pochettino, teams were utilising quick counters very effectively. Whenever we looked like breaking away yesterday, it'd just stop and a few sideways and backwards passes would give Leicester time to rally their defence.

Final thoughts on the crowd. The drummer that Leicester obviously allow in to lead their singing did a great job. They created a fantastic atmosphere that must have intimidated our players. They never stopped singing and the drum even allowed people in the rest of the ground to join in. Great idea.

A section of our "supporters" booing off a team that's marked up our highest ever points total in the Prem lacked class.


To top off the day, we chose the worst curry house in Leicester for our meal then, as a consequence, I spent the night at my brother's house oop North shouting down the big white telephone.

I love supporting the Saints!


Vin

 

[Onionman]

Missed out two bits:

1. Leicester were excellent. Well-organised and keen. They deserve to stay up based on that performance.

2. All the way up I was saying it would be 2-0 to Leicester. So late to arrive that I didn't have time to back it.

Vin

 

[Jose Fonte baby]

Best curry house I've been to is The Coriander on the high street.

 

[I Sorry I Ruined The Party]

Basically, I'm not surprised for Davis to not clean out man and ball when making a tackle and I'm not surprised he got beat squared up in 1v1 on the edge of his own box, for the player he is and the role he was in, that's just going to happen.

No one should be so lousy they miss that simple a tackle. But even if Davis truly sucks that bad at tackling, then IMO he should have just stayed with his man then and not even gotten involved in the play. Because Reed was tracking Mahrez, and it was Davis getting involved that caused confusion.

But whatever, let's agree to disagree because I am NOT going to go back and watch any part of that game ever again, and I'm sure you don't want to, either.

 

[fatletiss]

He doesn't pull out, it's hard to tell from that angle and I wasn't quite sure looking at it at first but looking closely in slow-mo and basically frame-by-frame, I'm pretty certain what happens is Davis comes in with his left and stretches to plant his foot to get the ball which he does, it deflects towards Mahrez and Davis tries to poke it with his right foot but it just gets to Mahrez first. Davis' weight is going the wrong way and has had to turn his body to be able to balance lunging with his left and then right foot, and so Mahrez gets away from him. So he put the tackle in but a deflection just favours Mahrez, and it's not exactly like Davis is a powerhouse himself if he is unable to get the ball I wouldn't expect him to just block or outmuscle Mahrez. For me Davis did what he could and followed his M.O., he tried to put in a simple tackle without being able to use much physical power, it wasn't that good and then he got the unlucky side of a deflection but he chased and harried before getting done badly on the edge of his own box which personally I don't think is an outrage for an AM vs another AM. Reed on the other hand didn't do what he normally does and what is expected of him, by far his main strengths are tackling and pressing the ball with great energy, he got sold in pretty similar circumstances to Davis (if anything considering how far away he got from the ball it was even worse) and then didn't chase back and attack the ball or cover the most dangerous area Mahrez could go. Basically, I'm not surprised for Davis to not clean out man and ball when making a tackle and I'm not surprised he got beat squared up in 1v1 on the edge of his own box, for the player he is and the role he was in, that's just going to happen. However Reed didn't do what he's supposed to do both by his DNA as a player and his role in the team and thus I don't see how Davis can be blamed more than him. Also in terms of ifs and buts, the problem is that it did happen, everyone involved after that still has to do their job and is responsible, if Mane gives the ball away up the pitch and then on the counter attack Jose get's nutmegged three times and they score do we not place more blame on Jose even though it wouldn't have happenedif Mane didn't give the ball away?

Way too much analysis and I admire your defending of Davis. However we word it, "pull out", "put foot in wrong place" or "unlucky deflection," Davis unfortunately didn't deal with the situation. You make sure you win the ball on the edge of your own area. There's a time to try and nick the ball and the time to block tackle and maybe get hurt.

 

[fran-MLs little camera]

The fact is that Davis did well earlier in the season and has now hit a poorish patch (though isn't the only one responsible for us losing). I'm certain he will regain form and we will certainly need him if we get to play in Europe.

 

[Dark Lord SFC]

His drop in form seems to have happened following his two week injury lay off

A bit like Big Vic who has had two poor games since coming back from his two game suspension

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

His drop in form seems to have happened following his two week injury lay off

A bit like Big Vic who has had two poor games since coming back from his two game suspension

Vic *always* takes time to get a rhythm back. It's like turning a tanker.

 

[Libby]

Anyone else notice that as soon as that stat came around saying how we hadn't conceded more than once away from home since the opening day came to light, we then go on to concede twice in 3 consecutive away games and lose all 3