Sorry TigerFiley, I wouldn't say its a good chance, just a chance. I'm sat here hoping for a no from the FA.
Name change discussion
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Sorry TigerFiley, I wouldn't say its a good chance, just a chance. I'm sat here hoping for a no from the FA.
Interesting article for sure, and I always thought of him as a sports journo tbh. Some people might have a "favorite" sport or thing they do, but are able to be detached when reporting on other things. He's right too, and I still maintain we'll be at the cutting edge and leading this new and exciting revolution.
I wouldn't be worried about this being moved Chazz, it's more likely to be deleted. No idea where a load of posts have gone, plus I briefly saw a DMD Special Thread which has totally gone too unless I'm just blind. Could be that's why he has the strange view on history, he thinks by deleting any comments about him or not supporting his buddies, they never happened.
I wouldn't be worried about this being moved Chazz, it's more likely to be deleted. No idea where a load of posts have gone, plus I briefly saw a DMD Special Thread which has totally gone too unless I'm just blind. Could be that's why he has the strange view on history, he thinks by deleting any comments about him or not supporting his buddies, they never happened.
why do people insist in calling it Humberside , it must take extra effort to mis-name a place , especially in an article about renaming .
He should stick to the egg shaped ball
He should stick to the egg shaped ball
It's a load of ****.
He says Allam wants to change the name for marketing reasons and doesn't even question the logic of that. He also talks about Southampton being renamed the Solent Saints and the alternative being relegation and financial meltdown with no explanation whatsoever. It's my belief that anyone who makes this link between name changes and success should be kicked extremely hard in the cock.
I think journalists just realise they can get an easy story out of this situation, without actually saying anything new at all.
Hull owner Assam Allam would be wise to avoid name change
ASSAM ALLAM is not a bad man. The Hull City chairman and owner gave £1 million to a local hospital last week.
Castle Hill Hospital will now be able to complete a new building with a scanner to enable better diagnosis of cancer, heart disease and dementia.
So, no, Allam is not a bad man. A friend of mine spent some time with him recently and concluded that he is a very decent person.
In the increasingly divisive and heated argument about the name of the football club, he has been portrayed by some as a pantomime villain, but such a two-dimensional view of him is wrong.
The fans protesting about his plan to rebrand the club as Hull Tigers understand this and want no part of the demonising that has occurred on message boards and elsewhere.
But, for all his philanthropy, Allam has not given money to the football club.
He has lent them money.
A lot of it.
More than £74m, and that was before manager Steve Bruce spent £14m on two strikers this month.
He has lent the money to the club from his holding company Allamhouse, which owns the football club, the stadium and his engineering company Allam Marine. The football clubâs losses are set against the huge profit the marine engineering firm makes.
It is still an extraordinary amount of money which he has put at Bruceâs disposal. But it is all in loans, not gifts. Allam could take his money back.
That is why the acrimonious row about the clubâs name is so fraught with danger - and the argument reaches a crucial stage on Friday.
That is when the No to Hull Tigers protest group submit evidence to the FA about their belief that the club should keep its full name: Hull City AFC. The âAFCâ bit is a mark that this is an Association Football Club in a Rugby League area.
And the âCityâ bit is important because, 116 years ago, the folk of the area fought hard for city status.
If the FA agree with the fans, Allam says he will quit the club âwithin 24 hoursâ.
On BBC radio 5 Live at the weekend, former Labour Deputy Prime Minister Lord (John) Prescott told listeners that if Allam walks, the club will be unsustainable.
I was on the Sportsweek show with him, and pointed out that Prescott is a director of Hull Kingston Rovers rugby league club, and theyâve had £1m of Allamâs money.
You can see why his Lordship has sided with Allam.
The City Council donât want to upset him either, so although the FA asked them their view on the name-change, the council wrote back last week saying, more or less: âItâs nothing to do with us.â Allam doesnât like people disagreeing with him, you see.
He told the local Hull Daily Mail: âI donât allow questioning of this (the name change). If I am allowing that, I might as well let people come and run my company. No. No question is entertained about how I run my business or my club.â
That intransigence is where this generous, decent man shows his flaw. It is also the reason some are wavering about the fight to preserve the clubâs historic name.
But to understand the issue you need ask yourself just one question: How would you feel if it were your club? That is all the FA board need ask themselves.
Once they have done that, they must draw a line, put down a marker â or whatever metaphor you like. They must decide that fans have an emotional stake in their clubâs history which should not be over-ruled because of the intimidatory threats of the owner.
You see, although the man at the heart of this row is not two-dimensional, the issue is completely clear-cut. The name change is unnecessary and unjustifiable. Itâs just wrong.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssam-Allam-would-be-wise-to-avoid-name-change
ASSAM ALLAM is not a bad man. The Hull City chairman and owner gave £1 million to a local hospital last week.
Castle Hill Hospital will now be able to complete a new building with a scanner to enable better diagnosis of cancer, heart disease and dementia.
So, no, Allam is not a bad man. A friend of mine spent some time with him recently and concluded that he is a very decent person.
In the increasingly divisive and heated argument about the name of the football club, he has been portrayed by some as a pantomime villain, but such a two-dimensional view of him is wrong.
The fans protesting about his plan to rebrand the club as Hull Tigers understand this and want no part of the demonising that has occurred on message boards and elsewhere.
But, for all his philanthropy, Allam has not given money to the football club.
He has lent them money.
A lot of it.
More than £74m, and that was before manager Steve Bruce spent £14m on two strikers this month.
He has lent the money to the club from his holding company Allamhouse, which owns the football club, the stadium and his engineering company Allam Marine. The football clubâs losses are set against the huge profit the marine engineering firm makes.
It is still an extraordinary amount of money which he has put at Bruceâs disposal. But it is all in loans, not gifts. Allam could take his money back.
That is why the acrimonious row about the clubâs name is so fraught with danger - and the argument reaches a crucial stage on Friday.
That is when the No to Hull Tigers protest group submit evidence to the FA about their belief that the club should keep its full name: Hull City AFC. The âAFCâ bit is a mark that this is an Association Football Club in a Rugby League area.
And the âCityâ bit is important because, 116 years ago, the folk of the area fought hard for city status.
You must log in or register to see images
If the FA agree with the fans, Allam says he will quit the club âwithin 24 hoursâ.
On BBC radio 5 Live at the weekend, former Labour Deputy Prime Minister Lord (John) Prescott told listeners that if Allam walks, the club will be unsustainable.
I was on the Sportsweek show with him, and pointed out that Prescott is a director of Hull Kingston Rovers rugby league club, and theyâve had £1m of Allamâs money.
You can see why his Lordship has sided with Allam.
The City Council donât want to upset him either, so although the FA asked them their view on the name-change, the council wrote back last week saying, more or less: âItâs nothing to do with us.â Allam doesnât like people disagreeing with him, you see.
He told the local Hull Daily Mail: âI donât allow questioning of this (the name change). If I am allowing that, I might as well let people come and run my company. No. No question is entertained about how I run my business or my club.â
That intransigence is where this generous, decent man shows his flaw. It is also the reason some are wavering about the fight to preserve the clubâs historic name.
But to understand the issue you need ask yourself just one question: How would you feel if it were your club? That is all the FA board need ask themselves.
Once they have done that, they must draw a line, put down a marker â or whatever metaphor you like. They must decide that fans have an emotional stake in their clubâs history which should not be over-ruled because of the intimidatory threats of the owner.
You see, although the man at the heart of this row is not two-dimensional, the issue is completely clear-cut. The name change is unnecessary and unjustifiable. Itâs just wrong.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssam-Allam-would-be-wise-to-avoid-name-change
"on Humberside" is correct as it refers to the geographical area.
"in Humberside" is incorrect as it refers to the abolished county.
City Till We Die: How 13 Hull City fans became 13,000 voices for the FA to hear in 'Tigers' name change row
On Friday the Football Association will be presented with a formal submission from the Hull City fans' group City Till We Die over club owner Assem Allam's bid to rename the club Hull Tigers. Philip Buckingham talks to the fans to find out more
WHEN 13 like-minded Hull City fans settled around a table in the Halfway House pub on Spring Bank West, it was a meeting with more hope than expectation in attendance.
Assem Allam’s controversial plans to rebrand the club as Hull Tigers had stirred opposition, but the first protests had proved disorganised and poorly-attended. “They were doing more harm than good,” said Mark Gretton, a long-standing fan of over 30 years.
So on September 24, in the hours that preceded the visit of Huddersfield Town in the Capital One Cup, the campaign group City Till We Die was born.
What has followed has taken even the optimists in their number by surprise. “It’s become a monster,” says committee member Ian Waterson with a disbelieving shake of the head.
The original 13 has since become a paid-up following of over 1,500 members. As well as 30,000 leaflets and 12,000 badges distributed at City games, 1,200 scarves have been sold bearing the name of campaign. An online petition has attracted 13,000 signatures. Interest and appreciation has come from Australia to Argentina, from Indonesia to Italy and from New Zealand to Norway.
A collective voice has cleared its throat and carefully spoken in favour of Allam but firmly against his proposal for change. Soon they will be left to hope the Football Association are willing to listen.
With Allam’s application to become known as Hull Tigers from the start of 2014-15 lodged with the game’s governing body last month, the work of CTWD begins to culminate with a written submission outlining their beliefs to the FA on Friday. A meeting at their Wembley headquarters is then expected to follow next month.
Other views will be taken into account, including those of Allam, the Hull City Official Supporters Club, Tigers Co-op and the East Riding FA, before a final decision is cast by members of the FA Council in April. Then either Hull City AFC or Hull Tigers will be approved to begin a new season in August.
Neither Allam nor CTWD are yet willing to contemplate defeat on this increasingly divisive issue but members of the proactive campaign group continue to cling to the hope of victory.
Waterson, 42, Gretton, 51, and Geoff Bielby, 57, who together boast 100 years of service following City, are three of the 1,500 supporters Allam famously remarked could "die when they want" in the fight against change. None of the three resemble either “militants” or “hooligans” but all state their case passionately.
Waterson, who was present for the group’s inception in September, has watched the expansion first-hand.
“It’s been fantastic,” he said. “We were really taken aback at the level of support, both from our fans and from other clubs. We’ve had so many football fans getting in touch wishing us luck with the campaign and offering their help.
“It would be easy to mock us because that’s what football fans do, but we’ve had applause from rival fans when we sing ‘City Till I Die’. You don’t see that very often.”
Gretton is in full agreement. He said: “If I’m honest I didn’t expect this level of support quite frankly. We started off thinking it was about hearts and minds, having to convince people.
“There was always going to be people who said ‘It’s his club, he can do what he likes’ but there was way more support for our campaign than I ever imagined. That gave us a real buzz because before it had been a step into the unknown.
“The reaction has been really heartening. Sometimes when we get down or tired, someone produces an email from around the country or the world offering help and thanking us for what we’ve been doing. It’s a real lift.”
The campaign has bounded out from its Spring Bank home and all the way down to Fleet Street, attracting endless headlines and widespread support in the print media. Significant backing also came from Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore, who voiced his displeasure at the notion of Hull Tigers before Christmas.
Allam has had support, too, reminding us this has never been blanket opposition. Former deputy Prime Minister and East Hull MP John Prescott has been vocal in his defence of Allam in recent days, while Sir Tom Courtenay, president of City’s OSC, has been another high-profile supporter at the owner’s side.
“It’s fair to say fans, including people connected to the campaign, have been conflicted along the way,” observed Gretton, accepting that Allam is delivering success beyond their imagination when rescuing the club from financial meltdown in 2010.
“There’s a recognition that you can be thankful for what he’s done for the club but also be realistic. The gift was saving the club and we owe him hugely for that, but that doesn’t mean to say he gets the only say on what happens to this club forever.
“You can buy a listed building and though you might be the owner, there are restrictions and requirements placed upon you.”
Bielby, the great, great grandson of John Henry Bielby, a member of City’s first board of directors in 1904, believes that explains the support from further afield.
“I think all supporters understand this could be the thin end of the wedge and they wonder where it’s going to stop. There’s a feeling this could happen anywhere and football would be the worse for it.
“There’s a real genuine fear from football fans in this country that the whole game is starting to become dysfunctional.”
That wider issue will make City a fascinating case study this Spring. With Allam last week publicly declaring he would walk away “within 24 hours” if the FA reject his application, a harmonious resolution appears impossible. There can only be one winner in this fight. Picking them is another matter altogether.
“We don’t know how it will end is the honest answer,” said Gretton.
“When the FA has been faced with important issues in the past it hasn’t always made the right decision in my opinion.
“What you have to do is make sure we’re as well-equipped as we can be to give the best case we can. We’ve tried to lobby as many people as we think the FA will talk to about this issue. We’re making it clear why it matters so much to us.
“By the end of all this we just want to be sure we’ve done everything we possibly can.”
Bielby adds: “I wouldn’t want to be sitting somewhere this summer with Hull Tigers having suddenly happened and knowing I hadn’t done something. I don’t want to have regrets that we didn’t do enough. We want to get the message out there and hope the FA make the right decision for the best interests of my club.”
And if the decision goes in the favour of Allam? “I’d be absolutely gutted, no two ways about it,” said Waterson.
“We’ve owed it to our forefathers. This is the name they’ve always known and that heritage is important to us.
“If we hadn’t made an attempt to try and save it then Hull City could be called whatever you want. I couldn’t live with knowing that our name had become insignificant. It wouldn’t sit comfortably with me. I believe I’m doing the right thing. The final decision is out of our hands but we know we’ll have done everything we can.”
And with that the matter will soon land on the in-tray of the Football Association. Soon their opinion will be the only one that matters.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/City...tory-20468124-detail/story.html#ixzz2r1b42zTo
I believe this article is expanded to a double page spread in today's paper.
You must log in or register to see images
On Friday the Football Association will be presented with a formal submission from the Hull City fans' group City Till We Die over club owner Assem Allam's bid to rename the club Hull Tigers. Philip Buckingham talks to the fans to find out more
WHEN 13 like-minded Hull City fans settled around a table in the Halfway House pub on Spring Bank West, it was a meeting with more hope than expectation in attendance.
Assem Allam’s controversial plans to rebrand the club as Hull Tigers had stirred opposition, but the first protests had proved disorganised and poorly-attended. “They were doing more harm than good,” said Mark Gretton, a long-standing fan of over 30 years.
So on September 24, in the hours that preceded the visit of Huddersfield Town in the Capital One Cup, the campaign group City Till We Die was born.
What has followed has taken even the optimists in their number by surprise. “It’s become a monster,” says committee member Ian Waterson with a disbelieving shake of the head.
The original 13 has since become a paid-up following of over 1,500 members. As well as 30,000 leaflets and 12,000 badges distributed at City games, 1,200 scarves have been sold bearing the name of campaign. An online petition has attracted 13,000 signatures. Interest and appreciation has come from Australia to Argentina, from Indonesia to Italy and from New Zealand to Norway.
A collective voice has cleared its throat and carefully spoken in favour of Allam but firmly against his proposal for change. Soon they will be left to hope the Football Association are willing to listen.
With Allam’s application to become known as Hull Tigers from the start of 2014-15 lodged with the game’s governing body last month, the work of CTWD begins to culminate with a written submission outlining their beliefs to the FA on Friday. A meeting at their Wembley headquarters is then expected to follow next month.
Other views will be taken into account, including those of Allam, the Hull City Official Supporters Club, Tigers Co-op and the East Riding FA, before a final decision is cast by members of the FA Council in April. Then either Hull City AFC or Hull Tigers will be approved to begin a new season in August.
Neither Allam nor CTWD are yet willing to contemplate defeat on this increasingly divisive issue but members of the proactive campaign group continue to cling to the hope of victory.
Waterson, 42, Gretton, 51, and Geoff Bielby, 57, who together boast 100 years of service following City, are three of the 1,500 supporters Allam famously remarked could "die when they want" in the fight against change. None of the three resemble either “militants” or “hooligans” but all state their case passionately.
Waterson, who was present for the group’s inception in September, has watched the expansion first-hand.
“It’s been fantastic,” he said. “We were really taken aback at the level of support, both from our fans and from other clubs. We’ve had so many football fans getting in touch wishing us luck with the campaign and offering their help.
“It would be easy to mock us because that’s what football fans do, but we’ve had applause from rival fans when we sing ‘City Till I Die’. You don’t see that very often.”
Gretton is in full agreement. He said: “If I’m honest I didn’t expect this level of support quite frankly. We started off thinking it was about hearts and minds, having to convince people.
“There was always going to be people who said ‘It’s his club, he can do what he likes’ but there was way more support for our campaign than I ever imagined. That gave us a real buzz because before it had been a step into the unknown.
“The reaction has been really heartening. Sometimes when we get down or tired, someone produces an email from around the country or the world offering help and thanking us for what we’ve been doing. It’s a real lift.”
The campaign has bounded out from its Spring Bank home and all the way down to Fleet Street, attracting endless headlines and widespread support in the print media. Significant backing also came from Premier League chief executive Richard Scudamore, who voiced his displeasure at the notion of Hull Tigers before Christmas.
Allam has had support, too, reminding us this has never been blanket opposition. Former deputy Prime Minister and East Hull MP John Prescott has been vocal in his defence of Allam in recent days, while Sir Tom Courtenay, president of City’s OSC, has been another high-profile supporter at the owner’s side.
“It’s fair to say fans, including people connected to the campaign, have been conflicted along the way,” observed Gretton, accepting that Allam is delivering success beyond their imagination when rescuing the club from financial meltdown in 2010.
“There’s a recognition that you can be thankful for what he’s done for the club but also be realistic. The gift was saving the club and we owe him hugely for that, but that doesn’t mean to say he gets the only say on what happens to this club forever.
“You can buy a listed building and though you might be the owner, there are restrictions and requirements placed upon you.”
Bielby, the great, great grandson of John Henry Bielby, a member of City’s first board of directors in 1904, believes that explains the support from further afield.
“I think all supporters understand this could be the thin end of the wedge and they wonder where it’s going to stop. There’s a feeling this could happen anywhere and football would be the worse for it.
“There’s a real genuine fear from football fans in this country that the whole game is starting to become dysfunctional.”
That wider issue will make City a fascinating case study this Spring. With Allam last week publicly declaring he would walk away “within 24 hours” if the FA reject his application, a harmonious resolution appears impossible. There can only be one winner in this fight. Picking them is another matter altogether.
“We don’t know how it will end is the honest answer,” said Gretton.
“When the FA has been faced with important issues in the past it hasn’t always made the right decision in my opinion.
“What you have to do is make sure we’re as well-equipped as we can be to give the best case we can. We’ve tried to lobby as many people as we think the FA will talk to about this issue. We’re making it clear why it matters so much to us.
“By the end of all this we just want to be sure we’ve done everything we possibly can.”
Bielby adds: “I wouldn’t want to be sitting somewhere this summer with Hull Tigers having suddenly happened and knowing I hadn’t done something. I don’t want to have regrets that we didn’t do enough. We want to get the message out there and hope the FA make the right decision for the best interests of my club.”
And if the decision goes in the favour of Allam? “I’d be absolutely gutted, no two ways about it,” said Waterson.
“We’ve owed it to our forefathers. This is the name they’ve always known and that heritage is important to us.
“If we hadn’t made an attempt to try and save it then Hull City could be called whatever you want. I couldn’t live with knowing that our name had become insignificant. It wouldn’t sit comfortably with me. I believe I’m doing the right thing. The final decision is out of our hands but we know we’ll have done everything we can.”
And with that the matter will soon land on the in-tray of the Football Association. Soon their opinion will be the only one that matters.
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/City...tory-20468124-detail/story.html#ixzz2r1b42zTo
I believe this article is expanded to a double page spread in today's paper.
PLT - 3 things.
1. You completely missed the point that article was making.
2. Even so, does it have to question the logic of the name change to be credible?
3. Are you going to merge this ****?
1. You completely missed the point that article was making.
2. Even so, does it have to question the logic of the name change to be credible?
3. Are you going to merge this ****?
Done to death and wrong. If it was to be anything at all, it could arguable be Northumberland. There is no geographical area called humberside. It's a meaningless term ad in any evet, highlights the ignorance of the original article, especially given its topic. It's just history being rewritten.
It captures key points that Allam is a very good man, and that he's loaning the club money and holding us to ransom with more.
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssam-Allam-would-be-wise-to-avoid-name-change
http://www.express.co.uk/comment/co...ssam-Allam-would-be-wise-to-avoid-name-change
"The Black Country" or "The Potteries" don't exist either but are used to identify a geographical area.
Back on topic - I have stopped attending the KC stadium and will not go to home games or buy merchandise if the name change goes ahead. I may still attend the odd away game for my fix.
That has historic and traditional roots and do exist in that they can be identified. It's no more relevant than thinking Humberside and tyne or Merseyside are the same issue. They're not.
If there is a point the article is making then yes, I've certainly missed it. It seems to just be listing clubs whose owners are doing stupid stuff as far as I can see.
If it's just listing things we already know and not analysing, giving an opinion, interpretation or anything then I don't think it's credible. It just seems to be a lazy attempt to get an article out there as quickly as possible. As if an editor has said "Everyone else has done a piece on Hull City's name change, get one written."
The point the article was making was that in this day and age of the premier league supporters are little more than spectators and surrender any fan power they might have when rich owners start buying success.
Regarding your second paragraph, every single article that's been released after day 1 falls under that category. Everything to be aid about it had been at the very beginning. So none of these articles for the past half year have been credible at all.
If the point was that fans surrender any power then we weren't a very good example to pick.
A definite & telling result from the poll of members of the Hull City Southern Supporters Group
For those who haven't seen it - HCSS ballot results on name change, 92.1% opposed, 2% in favour, 5.9% neutral/abstain.
The Tigers Co-op had similar results, both results are in their respective FA submissions.
By co-operating with the council? Who? CTWD, the football club. I am not understanding this post. I can understand that good things can happen with councils and football clubs if they don't fall out. Correct me if I am wrong here but our council and the football club did fall out. There is also an on going court case over a disputed loan which one way or another affects the council. The council have also not taken a position on the name change when asked for one by the FA.
If you have managed to sort these things out on our behalf, may I borrow your magic wand one time when you are not using it?
If there are definite plans in place to extend the stadium please could you furnish further details. Ta.
Will you actually start attending the occasional match on the back of a name change Craig?