Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[Diego]

A better understanding of how it all works, of course. As opposed to us gobbing off on the sidelines over something we know little about.

Ah right, so some people in politics have this understanding but other s don't. I wish they wore a badge so I knew who were who.

 

[saintanton]

So you are basing your views on the fact our society is becoming more like America every day because of the programs we have on TV (I do agree with you on the educational model though), the EU is not going to stop that.
Sometimes I look at places like NK and China and wonder if they have some things right with their broadcasting restrictions (not news wise), the things we see just make crime normal.

Where did I say that?

 

[saintanton]

Ah right, so some people in politics have this understanding but other s don't. I wish they wore a badge so I knew who were who.

Are you saying we all of us have equal knowledge in all fields then, regardless of experience?

 

[Diego]

Are you saying we all of us have equal knowledge in all fields then, regardless of experience?

Nope, just wish I knew who had more insight than others like you do.

 

[Diego]

When it comes to export trade to the EU, does anybody know what products are our biggest sellers?

 

[BobbyD]

So you're basing your views on a party political orientation? I think this issue goes beyond that.
The last time I looked the US was 29th in the global league of educational standards. That's pretty damning for the most powerful nation in the world and the land of the free.
We were 20th- bad enough in itself, and in part because of our adoption of many aspects of their model over decades.
The effects of increased privatisation of the NHS are too many and complex for me to go into here.
As for the other things - race, poverty etc- you seem to have misunderstood my point - I'm not saying those things are particularly bad, but that they will get worse if we leave because I believe we will inexorably be drawn into following the US.
As many on here will point out, I'm an old git - I've seen it happen for decades. I can't see it getting any better.

No, i'm fine with all parties as long as 1. their policies best fit my view of the world and 2. they have a good record of implementing said policies previously.

Yup, the privatisation of the NHS is ongoing, but if we were to remain in the EU, i think there are far more hurdles to re-nationalising it if there was appetite to do it then if we were to be out.

What in particular makes you feel that we are heading towards a US model and what about the EU thinks that we are heading away from the EU model? The way i see it, with the EU we are more of an EU model whereby the common person is even further away from the people who hold the power and it's purely the corporations who are able to lobby and influence the top positions.

 

[saintanton]

Nope, just wish I knew who had more insight than others like you do.

Usually those who work in the field.
Stop trying to be a smartarse, ffs.

 

[BobbyD]

Usually those who work in the field.
Stop trying to be a smartarse, ffs.

Just so i can get a better picture what field do you work in?

 

[saintanton]

No, i'm fine with all parties as long as 1. their policies best fit my view of the world and 2. they have a good record of implementing said policies previously.

Yup, the privatisation of the NHS is ongoing, but if we were to remain in the EU, i think there are far more hurdles to re-nationalising it if there was appetite to do it then if we were to be out.

What in particular makes you feel that we are heading towards a US model and what about the EU thinks that we are heading away from the EU model? The way i see it, with the EU we are more of an EU model whereby the common person is even further away from the people who hold the power and it's purely the corporations who are able to lobby and influence the top positions.

It's been a continuing trend throughout my lifetime.
I don't see the EU as being the polar opposite of the US at all, just the lesser of two evils.

 

[Diego]

Usually those who work in the field.
Stop trying to be a smartarse, ffs.

You do realise that there are economists that "work in the field" and politicians that "work in the field" on both sides don't you?

I think when opinion is around 50/50 you cant blame it all on Wayne and Waynettas

 

[saintanton]

Just so i can get a better picture what field do you work in?

Haha. I've never given stuff like that away on here and I ain't starting now.
It's not relevant, because I'm not claiming to be an expert at all, I was just pointing out that there are many out there and most seem to be of the opinion that we should stay in.
I dislike party politics as much as anyone, but you don't need to like people, or approve of what they do, to acknowledge that they have some expertise.

 

[saintanton]

You do realise that there are economists that "work in the field" and politicians that "work in the field" on both sides don't you?

I think when opinion is around 50/50 you cant blame it all on Wayne and Waynettas

50/50 is it?
Ok then.

 

[BobbyD]

It's been a continuing trend throughout my lifetime.
I don't see the EU as being the polar opposite of the US at all, just the lesser of two evils.

That's what i was asking... what practically is making us more towards a US model? More Corporations? Squeezing out of local communities by big chains? Any particular insights?

Also with respect to the EU, but they have been giving rules and regulations for a while and you are seeing a trend towards a US model, is that in spite of the EU or part of the problem with the EU?

 

[saintanton]

That's what i was asking... what practically is making us more towards a US model? More Corporations? Squeezing out of local communities by big chains? Any particular insights?

Also with respect to the EU, but they have been giving rules and regulations for a while and you are seeing a trend towards a US model, is that in spite of the EU or part of the problem with the EU?

In spite of.
This is part of my point - I don't think we are dictated to by the EU anything like as much as is being made out.

 

[carlthejackal]

50/50 is it?
Ok then.

Economy v/s Immigration.
Do we fear the immigrants more than we fear Unemployment?

 

[BobbyD]

Haha. I've never given stuff like that away on here and I ain't starting now.
It's not relevant, because I'm not claiming to be an expert at all, I was just pointing out that there are many out there and most seem to be of the opinion that we should stay in.
I dislike party politics as much as anyone, but you don't need to like people, or approve of what they do, to acknowledge that they have some expertise.

That's fair enough, with respect to the people who are overwhelmingly in, from my perspective it's all a vested interest.

Short term, i'm in agreement that the economy will be worse off (not to tobes level where we'll turn into a third world country). It will probably impact on me negatively being a multiple house owner.

If i think the EU is pro EU with all their lobby powers, is it any surprise these big corporations want to stay in? With respect to the politicians, some of them seem opportunistic like Boris, some are just on the gravy train and get paid handsomely to stay in the EU like the Kinnocks. Is it a surprise that the UKIP MEPs are voting out though when they are making a fortune. Others have a vested interest like the Greens because the EU is very good to the environment.

You seem to disregard other experts who say we are better of out like the direct general of british commerce who thinks we should be out or others like the Goldman Sachs Managing Director

 

[Diego]

It's been a continuing trend throughout my lifetime.
I don't see the EU as being the polar opposite of the US at all, just the lesser of two evils.

How is it less evil, it has power over more people than the USSR ever had, power breads power and eventually megalomaniacs.
The common market was a very good idea when it was proposed, the developments since have been heading to a super state led by un-elected individuals with a common aim which goes beyond the reach of trade.

 

[Diego]

50/50 is it?
Ok then.

What is the latest poll?

 

[Diego]

Economy v/s Immigration.
Do we fear the immigrants more than we fear Unemployment?

Dead easy innit, blame the bigots. Maybe some of them have opinions on other things as well?

 

[saintanton]

That's fair enough, with respect to the people who are overwhelmingly in, from my perspective it's all a vested interest.

Short term, i'm in agreement that the economy will be worse off (not to tobes level where we'll turn into a third world country). It will probably impact on me negatively being a multiple house owner.

If i think the EU is pro EU with all their lobby powers, is it any surprise these big corporations want to stay in? With respect to the politicians, some of them seem opportunistic like Boris, some are just on the gravy train and get paid handsomely to stay in the EU like the Kinnocks. Is it a surprise that the UKIP MEPs are voting out though when they are making a fortune. Others have a vested interest like the Greens because the EU is very good to the environment.

You seem to disregard other experts who say we are better of out like the direct general of british commerce who thinks we should be out or others like the Goldman Sachs Managing Director

Of course it's a vested interest, I've never tried to say otherwise. I distrust them all, because they're all pursuing their own ends.
But saying that, I could turn the tables - what then is the point in leaving? In or out, the same type of people will still be running the show, and it won't be for our benefit.