Off Topic YOUR VOTE COUNTED...

[Ivan Dobsky]

Does this not mean that Brexit have lost 70% of their budget in under two months? At this rate we're going to have to allow immigrants to be employed in our concentration camps in the future. Perhaps they'll get extra points in an Aussie 'points' system?

 

[carlthejackal]

I've seen it all now. The lead brexiteers who are almost as right wing as Farage now want more Pakistani Indian and African immigration. Michael Gove said tonight in his debate that the poor Pakistani Indian and African immigrants are being discriminated against because of EU immigration. We want more of them but we can't

Have these people got no shame ? They will use any argument to try to influence people. He also said that 30+ million uk residents have been made poorer by being in the EU. What ? Just picking figures from the air.

That's why politicians have such a bad name. They are all liers, some do not even bother to hide it. Both sides do it.

 

[Diego]

I've seen it all now. The lead brexiteers who are almost as right wing as Farage now want more Pakistani Indian and African immigration. Michael Gove said tonight in his debate that the poor Pakistani Indian and African immigrants are being discriminated against because of EU immigration. We want more of them but we can't

Have these people got no shame ? They will use any argument to try to influence people. He also said that 30+ million uk residents have been made poorer by being in the EU. What ? Just picking figures from the air.

That's why politicians have such a bad name. They are all liers, some do not even bother to hide it. Both sides do it.

Them damned bigot's eh, just cant help themselves.

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

I've seen it all now. The lead brexiteers who are almost as right wing as Farage now want more Pakistani Indian and African immigration. Michael Gove said tonight in his debate that the poor Pakistani Indian and African immigrants are being discriminated against because of EU immigration. We want more of them but we can't

Have these people got no shame ? They will use any argument to try to influence people. He also said that 30+ million uk residents have been made poorer by being in the EU. What ? Just picking figures from the air.

That's why politicians have such a bad name. They are all liers, some do not even bother to hide it. Both sides do it.

Unless they're ***** taxi drivers in Rotherham - then it's the EU's fault, evidently.

 

[saintanton]

Sources on Uk wanting to adopt US food standards please?

Everyone was affected by the global crisis, but China and Canada were not as affected. I'm not saying we won't be affected, just that we will be more affected. I will say i don't know enough about this but if the EU started giving bailouts over IMF or Eurozone it wouldnt not surprise me (just like how the EU are giving turkey 3 billion).

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree MITO



http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/nov/22/eu-budget-spending-contributions-european-union

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216



I have just done a quick read up on what was broadcast. Whilst what he broadcast is distasteful and actually i'm in no way sympathetic to what will happen to him (poking the hornets nest), this sort of satire and bashing of leaders/celebrities is a dime and dozen. Whilst technically correct that he can be prosecuted as there is a really obscure law that has been bought to the attention of the german government which they are going to appeal, do you think had that not been erdogan the consequences would have been different?

Really? Oh this will happen, have no doubt. We've already inexplicably adopted, either in whole or in part, U.S. policies that have quite clearly failed for them - in things like education and health. It's only our association with the EU that is preventing us from becoming the U.S. Lite.
Take a look at all the aspects of society in the U.S. that matter - race relations, crime and punishment, poverty, religious and political extremism plus the two I've already mentioned. There is no important aspect of their society that we should be envious of- none whatsoever.
Did I say inexplicable? Actually the explanation is obvious - their policies make the few at the top richer whilst ****ting all over everybody else - do you really believe it won't happen here?
You don't need sources - just vote to leave and you'll see it unfold before your eyes.

 

[BobbyD]

Please quatnify that statement.

I think you should maybe look into how the EU works a little more, mate

The team who proposes the laws is called the european commission and is made of 28 people.

They are comprised of 1 president who is proposed the european council (mainly heads of states) and the european parliament majority give the approval. The rest of the commissioners are then selected by the president who in turn select the rest of the commissioner 1 from each country with normally the head of each country providing a recommendation.

Now we have our undemocratically voted commission that has been elected by essentially the heads of the states and hand picked team who then propose and discuss new laws and regulations. These get put to the european parliament where your MEP will vote yes or no for it. If no, the commission might make a new amendment or what not but at no point does your elected MEP get an input into what goes in or out of the bill.

So how does this differ from the peoples republic party in china, whereby the politburo and actual leadership is selected by the party. There is no this party will do this and we all vote a party, it is just a group of heads selecting who they want without any input from the common person.

@moreinjuredthanowen as for Turkey never joining the EU, Cameron in 2010 and 2014 was backing Turkey to join the EU (he may have changed his stance since, well since the referendum started)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-10773007

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Turkey-to-join-EU-despite-migrant-fears.html

Right someone answer me this...

The gross is 350m a week.

Then rebate.

Then money back in funding.

So we pay approx 100M in that never returns....a week


1) what does the 150m or so in funding coming back actually go on? No one's been talking about whether it goes to the right places. It may well do but I have seen the split and what it's for?

**** bananas etc...It doesn't go on fishing subsidies because almost all the remaining (very few) fishermen support remain. The policy has been hand written for the Spanish. Hence why being one of the few countries to obey the rules we got screwed.

The Agricultural funding is a bit different...because of the supermarkets farmers rely on the EU funding to survive: but over here anyway; they feel trapped by it. The funding limits what they can do with their land as it's geared to French agriculture. They're on a lose lose....

2) Do we believe 100M a week is worth the supposed free trade? If so, tell me how. Tell me in numbers how it would cost more a week with trade costs outside.

actually its more 150m but whatever just chump change really for free trade

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-35943216

1 last thing about the EU... i guess mine is scaremongering but do you think after we vote in for the EU, the EU is going to remain as it is or will it again expand its power. Now if we were talking about Europe being as one where there was parties we nominated and we had a breakdown in national barriers, that might be more appetising but we aren't, there are too many differences culturally and financially. If it was a common trading area, again that is fine, but that is not what it is anymore.

Next on the list maybe an EU army: only our EU president. This is probably a good thing for the UK though, we'd probably be providing a lot of the arms. Then again we'd probably be paying for part of the army in our contributions

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[DirtyFrank]

Well there we have it - £100m a week extra on the NHS (£5bn a year?), 'maybe' some more on VAT fuel cuts, and 'perhaps we might' be able to help Port Talbot steelworks. Three more weeks to go - that net £100m has already been spent, and we might be spending some more. What percent were our net exports to the EU again? Maybe Winston Peters is going to buy it all for NZ instead though (even though his PM has said the UK should stay in the EU). If they take VAT off Special Brew, Regal Kingsize and give free dog food for Staffies; and free Jeremy Kyle for NHS patients suffering from PTSD for mobility scooter crashes, then Brexit will romp this.

Edit: At least they're no longer trying to say they'd spend £350m a week extra on the NHS, like they tried to imply at the start of the campaign.

Lol....they're still saying 350 mill. DD...I just cut through the bull.

My questions weren't pro Brexit but it doesn't mean I don't want remain to answer specific questions....

Take Mitos response about agriculture funding....said nothing.

I have a mate who's job as a civil servant was to appropriate and monitor agri grants and regulation in NI for ten years...all I heard him say was what a waste of money administration wise...he moved to DOE last year to do the same...agri wise...suddenly this referendum comes up and he's all "remain" when I point out he's spent the last decade saying the grant system is bollox...he admits...yeah but I keep my job....

I need to see detail not self interest...

Already said the so far Brexit campaign has shown me nothing but I hate arrogant pricks like Cameron thinking they don't have to go into detail to justify their position.

My tax is micro so show me the micro benefits...that's all I ask...

 

[Ivan Dobsky]

Lol....they're still saying 350 mill. DD...I just cut through the bull.

My questions weren't pro Brexit but it doesn't mean I don't want remain to answer specific questions....

Take Mitos response about agriculture funding....said nothing.

I have a mate who's job as a civil servant was to appropriate and monitor agri grants and regulation in NI for ten years...all I heard him say was what a waste of money administration wise...he moved to DOE last year to do the same...agri wise...suddenly this referendum comes up and he's all "remain" when I point out he's spent the last decade saying the grant system is bollox...he admits...yeah but I keep my job....

I need to see detail not self interest...

Already said the so far Brexit campaign has shown me nothing but I hate arrogant pricks like Cameron thinking they don't have to go into detail to justify their position.

My tax is micro so show me the micro benefits...that's all I ask...

I was quoting Gove-adder on tonight's Sky thingy.

 

[DirtyFrank]

Really? Oh this will happen, have no doubt. We've already inexplicably adopted, either in whole or in part, U.S. policies that have quite clearly failed for them - in things like education and health. It's only our association with the EU that is preventing us from becoming the U.S. Lite.
Take a look at all the aspects of society in the U.S. that matter - race relations, crime and punishment, poverty, religious and political extremism plus the two I've already mentioned. There is no important aspect of their society that we should be envious of- none whatsoever.
Did I say inexplicable? Actually the explanation is obvious - their policies make the few at the top richer whilst ****ting all over everybody else - do you really believe it won't happen here?
You don't need sources - just vote to leave and you'll see it unfold before your eyes.

The referendum has nothing to do with the above...the richer have already got richer..poorer poorer...we've adopted yank economics since the 80's in or out of the EU.

Corporations baby...and they love the EU....lots of regs to hide behind...similar lobbying system for the rich...etc etc...

Let's not paint the EU as an anathema to global corps...

 

[DirtyFrank]

I was quoting Gove-adder on tonight's Sky thingy.

They read my post obviously lol

 

[BobbyD]

Really? Oh this will happen, have no doubt. We've already inexplicably adopted, either in whole or in part, U.S. policies that have quite clearly failed for them - in things like education and health. It's only our association with the EU that is preventing us from becoming the U.S. Lite.
Take a look at all the aspects of society in the U.S. that matter - race relations, crime and punishment, poverty, religious and political extremism plus the two I've already mentioned. There is no important aspect of their society that we should be envious of- none whatsoever.
Did I say inexplicable? Actually the explanation is obvious - their policies make the few at the top richer whilst ****ting all over everybody else - do you really believe it won't happen here?
You don't need sources - just vote to leave and you'll see it unfold before your eyes.

Which parts have we taken? Education costing more? thats because labour thought it was a good idea for any man child and dog to go to uni when it used to be the bright and most clever going. Race relations? we are the most PC country we know to the point we lets scandals of grooming for fear of being called racist in our unit and we allow islamist going on hate rallies with full police protection (not sure if the EDF get the same). Crime and punishment? we are super soft on crime. Poverty we still have a pretty good welfare state.

 

[astro]

Given that the amount we get back in funding is only a fraction of the amount we pay in, all current EU funding to the Uk could be paid for with billions left over to go on other projects

Or more likely, the government uses it to reduce the tax of the top 0.5%

 

[astro]

I've seen it all now. The lead brexiteers who are almost as right wing as Farage now want more Pakistani Indian and African immigration. Michael Gove said tonight in his debate that the poor Pakistani Indian and African immigrants are being discriminated against because of EU immigration. We want more of them but we can't

Have these people got no shame ? They will use any argument to try to influence people. He also said that 30+ million uk residents have been made poorer by being in the EU. What ? Just picking figures from the air.

That's why politicians have such a bad name. They are all liers, some do not even bother to hide it. Both sides do it.

They care about the poor so much. It was the evil EU that forced them to cut benefits and invent the bedroom tax.

 

[astro]

Which parts have we taken? Education costing more? thats because labour thought it was a good idea for any man child and dog to go to uni when it used to be the bright and most clever going. Race relations? we are the most PC country we know to the point we lets scandals of grooming for fear of being called racist in our unit and we allow islamist going on hate rallies with full police protection (not sure if the EDF get the same). Crime and punishment? we are super soft on crime. Poverty we still have a pretty good welfare state.

Soft on crime? We have people serving infinite sentences for minor crimes because the government can't be bothered with the paperwork to release them.

 

[astro]

Brexiters say they want their country back. As far as I care you can spin a globe, pick a random point on the Earth's surface, and let the nearest sentient creature be in complete control of the country rather then let the last few governments we've had operate without the restrictions of "human rights" and other "EU laws".

 

[saintanton]

The referendum has nothing to do with the above...the richer have already got richer..poorer poorer...we've adopted yank economics since the 80's in or out of the EU.

Corporations baby...and they love the EU....lots of regs to hide behind...similar lobbying system for the rich...etc etc...

Let's not paint the EU as an anathema to global corps...

We'll do so even more if we turn our backs on Europe. I really do believe this is what it comes down to.
Look Frank, I can't prove this - nobody can say what will happen with any certainty, but I would bet my future on it being true.
I'm really not trying to make out I'm any smarter than anyone else, but I was one of those who predicted the social and economic catastrophe that Thatcherism was going to bring, but people voted for it based on a perception of their own short-term gains.
I can just see it happening all over again. People being taken in by promises of greater wealth made through a series of unsubstantiated claims based on a ludicrously simplistic distillation of complex financial interactions.

It's telling to me that the majority of political and business figures who want to remain are those with a better understanding of the implications, drawn from experience, whilst the loudest voices in the Leave camp are peripheral figures recklessly playing political games with our futures in order to further their own careers.

Finally, of course the EU sucks up to the rich, global finance requires it unfortunately, but it's a world away from the thralldom the US is held in, imo.

 

[saintanton]

Which parts have we taken? Education costing more? thats because labour thought it was a good idea for any man child and dog to go to uni when it used to be the bright and most clever going. Race relations? we are the most PC country we know to the point we lets scandals of grooming for fear of being called racist in our unit and we allow islamist going on hate rallies with full police protection (not sure if the EDF get the same). Crime and punishment? we are super soft on crime. Poverty we still have a pretty good welfare state.

So you're basing your views on a party political orientation? I think this issue goes beyond that.
The last time I looked the US was 29th in the global league of educational standards. That's pretty damning for the most powerful nation in the world and the land of the free.
We were 20th- bad enough in itself, and in part because of our adoption of many aspects of their model over decades.
The effects of increased privatisation of the NHS are too many and complex for me to go into here.
As for the other things - race, poverty etc- you seem to have misunderstood my point - I'm not saying those things are particularly bad, but that they will get worse if we leave because I believe we will inexorably be drawn into following the US.
As many on here will point out, I'm an old git - I've seen it happen for decades. I can't see it getting any better.

 

[Diego]

We'll do so even more if we turn our backs on Europe. I really do believe this is what it comes down to.
Look Frank, I can't prove this - nobody can say what will happen with any certainty, but I would bet my future on it being true.
I'm really not trying to make out I'm any smarter than anyone else, but I was one of those who predicted the social and economic catastrophe that Thatcherism was going to bring, but people voted for it based on a perception of their own short-term gains.
I can just see it happening all over again. People being taken in by promises of greater wealth made through a series of unsubstantiated claims based on a ludicrously simplistic distillation of complex financial interactions.

It's telling to me that the majority of political and business figures who want to remain are those with a better understanding of the implications, drawn from experience, whilst the loudest voices in the Leave camp are peripheral figures recklessly playing political games with our futures in order to further their own careers.

Finally, of course the EU sucks up to the rich, global finance requires it unfortunately, but it's a world away from the thralldom the US is held in, imo.

What implications, and better still what experience. This is a first as far as I know.

 

[saintanton]

What implications, and better still what experience. This is a first as far as I know.

A better understanding of how it all works, of course. As opposed to us gobbing off on the sidelines over something we know little about.

 

[Diego]

So you're basing your views on a party political orientation? I think this issue goes beyond that.
The last time I looked the US was 29th in the global league of educational standards. That's pretty damning for the most powerful nation in the world and the land of the free.
We were 20th- bad enough in itself, and in part because of our adoption of many aspects of their model over decades.
The effects of increased privatisation of the NHS are too many and complex for me to go into here.
As for the other things - race, poverty etc- you seem to have misunderstood my point - I'm not saying those things are particularly bad, but that they will get worse if we leave because I believe we will inexorably be drawn into following the US.
As many on here will point out, I'm an old git - I've seen it happen for decades. I can't see it getting any better.

So you are basing your views on the fact our society is becoming more like America every day because of the programs we have on TV (I do agree with you on the educational model though), the EU is not going to stop that.
Sometimes I look at places like NK and China and wonder if they have some things right with their broadcasting restrictions (not news wise), the things we see just make crime normal.