Woolwich

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Sadly HC it may come to that. I hope it doesn't but if these kind of incidents are repeated then it might have to come to that and we will be happy to allow it to happen.
I am not a prophet of doom, god knows I am a Hull City fan, but if the Yanks get involved with a war with Iran and we get involve out of loyality to our best friends, then this kind of incident might become common. I am not expert on terrorism but the experts I have listened to say this could be with us for not years, but decades.
 
originallambrettaman said:
Too late, have you ever been to Huddersfield?
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So those people who complained about it back then, have now realised it was a sensible approach. Brilliant.

The sooner the season starts, the sooner these ****ty political, racist, ill informed threads that make us all look stupid will stop.

I wonder why this type of crap isn't just moved to the general forum? I guess our resident bigots feel like big fish on here, and there would just be bait.
 
Happy Clapper said:
So those people who complained about it back then, have now realised it was a sensible approach. Brilliant.

The sooner the season starts, the sooner these ****ty political, racist, ill informed threads that make us all look stupid will stop.

I wonder why this type of crap isn't just moved to the general forum? I guess our resident bigots feel like big fish on here, and there would just be bait.
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I was only joking.

It's always silly season on here when there's no footie.

And the mods can't move threads to other parts of the site.
 
Happy Clapper said:
So those people who complained about it back then, have now realised it was a sensible approach. Brilliant.

The sooner the season starts, the sooner these ****ty political, racist, ill informed threads that make us all look stupid will stop.

I wonder why this type of crap isn't just moved to the general forum? I guess our resident bigots feel like big fish on here, and there would just be bait.
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What you whinging for? It's miles better this debate than having Epic Cheese tell us who we'll sign based on him playing on Football Manager.
 
Circa said:
It's very hard for me to comment on this topic. I've always fought for tolerance... for all races, sexualities, sexes etc...

I come from all over the place, My descendants were spanish and polish on one side and swedish (like a lot of you I'm sure) on the other. I have french blood, lived in 3 different countries... the list goes on. I have friends, probably, from a combined 30/40 different countries.
All this to say I've always stood by the benefits of immigration.


But I'm afraid the tide is changing... and the muslims are to blame. I'm trying hard to resist but they are forcing me to change my views. Their actions are solely responsible for this. I know full well there are good muslims out there and I do feel a little sorry for them but today's actions will have been the tipping point for a lot of people imo.

I am not gonna pick out certain points or opinions, it's an extremely complicate debate that won't be solved on this forum.

However I'd like to point out two things.

Religion is man's worst invention.
I wouldn't be surprised if it ruined civilisation eventually.
At the end of the day that's the problem. Islam. Supposedly a peaceful religion... is still living in the dark ages. It hasn't evolved whatsoever. Catholicism was aggressive and violent...but 300 years ago. They really need to evolve, it's urgent now.
As an atheist this isn't a surprising opinion but I really loathe religion. Believers will hide behind the good it can do but in the case of Islam, the bad outweighs the good.
Also separating the state from the faith is something we've done well in this country but they clearly don't. It's something that they need to embrace in their home nations immediately.

They come to our country from a country where a huge percentage of the population believe in the same faith. They seem to be struggling with the idea of mixing with different faiths, atheists and a government that doesn't include religion in its policies.
It's sickening that we're harbouring people who actually hate us.


Secondly, the good muslims. ****ING GET OFF YOUR RUGS AND DO SOMETHING. If you ARE good peaceful muslims then you should be offended by today's events. You should be on OUR side and Britain's side. You should help the police! Do you not think some "good" muslims knew who these guys were and what they're up to?
Of course they're probably scared of snitching but you're either on their side or on this country's side. You can't come here and enjoy all the benefits of our lifestyle and be a bystander. I'm really tired of hearing people say "not all muslims are like them"... it means nothing to me if you don't prove it. Prove it by helping us get rid of those types.
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Here,here, hit the nail right on the head
 
The Bullshit Man said:
After yesterdays appalling and sensitive events, Channel 4 thinks it's a good idea to jump on the bandwagon and air a programme about a muslamic rape gang who groomed and sold underage british children for sex, and further incite public hatred towards islam.

You couldn't make it up <doh>
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What's wrong with that? Did they do it? Is reporting fact a bandwagon? They were Muslim, they raped and pimped underage white girls and they were one of a number of organised gangs preying on our children. Well done Channel 4!
 
If you understand what history is, try studying the relevant period and topic you are making uninformed statement s about., because you are wrong.
 
originallambrettaman said:
I was only joking.

It's always silly season on here when there's no footie.

And the mods can't move threads to other parts of the site.
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Yeah wasn't aimed you tbh. Ta for 2nd bit, no idea how admin works on this site, am used to other forums having threads moved to better locations a lot is all. Shame really, I don't mind a bit of light hearted, OT banter, but these political and bullshitty threads really do not have any place on a club forum.

Golaccio! said:
What you whinging for? It's miles better this debate than having Epic Cheese tell us who we'll sign based on him playing on Football Manager.
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...

Golly, that IS an excellent point. However, why can't we have neither?
 
In answer to the question on admin; mods on here prefer to work quietly in the background rather than jumping into threads to quote rules, especially as the rules can't really be that rigid. Also, it's not 'our' board, we only help tidy up on behalf of posters.


One of the more firm rules is no politics or religion and this one clearly fits both categories. However, it's an extreme incident that a significant number of board users want to discuss. It's quite clear from the title what the thread's about, so it's easy to ignore.

In general people are discussing it in a reasonable manner rather than being abusive or pushing a political party agenda.

While it stays like that it seems reasonsble to let it run its own course. I think most will know when it's time to end it an can pm a mod if they feel its time has come.
 
Interesting that a number of arrests have been made for comments made on internet.I abhor what happened in Woolwich but do not want other innocent people to be harmed in a backlash.
 
Happy Clapper said:
So those people who complained about it back then, have now realised it was a sensible approach. Brilliant.

The sooner the season starts, the sooner these ****ty political, racist, ill informed threads that make us all look stupid will stop.

I wonder why this type of crap isn't just moved to the general forum? I guess our resident bigots feel like big fish on here, and there would just be bait.
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I think the point is that attending a football match isn't quite as bad as committing an act of terror.

And yet despite that, the law is tougher on those 'suspected' (without evidence) of being a football hooligan than it is on those suspected of being a terrorist.

The fact that we can't kick Abu Hamza out of the country and also that we have these debates that rise from time to time about how long you're allowed to hold a terror suspect in custody for just take the piss. I particularly liked Circa's line 'it's sickening that we have people in this country who hate us'. Abu Hamza teaches hate and yet we can't even get rid of him because he might be punished for being a total **** if he gets sent home.
 
PLT said:
I think the point is that attending a football match isn't quite as bad as committing an act of terror.

And yet despite that, the law is tougher on those 'suspected' (without evidence) of being a football hooligan than it is on those suspected of being a terrorist.

The fact that we can't kick Abu Hamza out of the country and also that we have these debates that rise from time to time about how long you're allowed to hold a terror suspect in custody for just take the piss. I particularly liked Circa's line 'it's sickening that we have people in this country who hate us'. Abu Hamza teaches hate and yet we can't even get rid of him because he might be punished for being a total **** if he gets sent home.
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The problem is that statements like "they" hate "us" just don't make sense.

There is no "they" - in most cases, the perpetrator is acting on their own volition according to their own personal agenda - there's no command-and-control with Islamist terrorism. The moment you try to ascribe a collective sense of agency to what is usually random nutters you've already skipped over a whole raft of psychological and sociological factors. And in my view its a bit rich for a country like ours - which waged wars on the basis of humanitarianism and democratisation, not national security and national interest - to turn around and say, "sorry mate, we're sending anyone we don't like to a despotic regime for a bit of torture".

There is no "us" - most of the time, terrorists cite political factors, and tend to aimed at members of the state or financial elite - the government, the police, the military, the intelligence services, etc. This isn't just for Islamists either - Britain has been targeted by many different groups of people - Fenians/IRA, Israelis, Kenyans, Malayans, Boers...anywhere we've had a role in the world, there's people who have a grievance against us. It's definitely not about our "freedoms" - when was the last time Finland or Luxembourg had a bombing/atrocity?

We all saw that the immediate response from Government officials was "this has nothing to do with British foreign policy" - as though none of them have ever read a history book.
 
Random nutters shown to be associated with notable radical clerics.
 
Dutch_Mountain_Dog said:
Random nutters shown to be associated with notable radical clerics.
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Which amounts to some bloke denouncing British foreign policy...

If they were saying, here's the materials you need to make a bomb, here's your target, here's some cash for your family, it would be different. But its usually just "inciting racial hatred" which, let's face it, more than a few on here have been guilty of in the last few days. The free will and logistics are usually done independently through a magical device called the internet (which, incidentally, the government wants to control more and more).

The real question is, how is it that our own narrative for British foreign policy is so utterly piss weak that a mis-educated arsehole in a mosque can indoctrinate young men to kill other people? The answer is that a) we have no real narrative to tell that makes sense and b) our governments have spun the war on terror so much they no longer know which way is up.
 
I have no idea about that specifc cleric or individuals, but an undercover reporter showed plenty of hate preached from (some) Imams and dvd's pushing death to the west handed out.


To try to seperate the issues misses a big part of the problem and in my opinion is dangerous.

I was pleased to see an Imam from Halifax condemning unreservedliy the actions of these creatures. It"s a shame he's in a minority from what I can see.

If so called muslim communities fear a backlash, perhaps they should be more vocal in condemning the cowards hiding amongst them.
 
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