Winter transfer window

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FellTop said:
Or, to play devils advocate, Mowbray was happy with the model as sold. He came and did his job, got great results and achieved immediate ambitions. Then they hit a point, at which he thinks the players he is given wont allow him to hit the targets the club place on him for the next season. As a coach he judges players and thinks they arent yet going to achieve what his bosses tells him his target is. In that circumstance I can see why he might be a bit defensive and grumbling. Supporters often, in my experience, think players are better than they are and often criticise a coaches tactics. I wonder how many of those have the expertise to criticise a coaches tactics in all seriousness. We can ponder and argue and debate whether a coach has run out of ideas, hit a wall, or is old fashioned. It is all just speculation though, and unless we have walked in their shoes that is all it really can be, speculation and opinions, never facts.
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I can see your point to a certain degree but I can see were people are coming from.
When you keep playing the same players, same tactics and the same set up when it's not working anymore, yet your not prepared to give others a chance and at least have different options with your set up.
I've never coached at that sort of level or even close to it, but the one thing I noticed was how predictable we had become and easy to defend against under Mowbray.
He could have tried switching Clarke and Roberts now and again as teams easily set up to defend against them cutting inside.
Trying to give a striker a run in the team,
Even switching to a 3-5-2 at times.
It's as though Roberts and Clarke were nailed on with the same formation and everyone else had to fit around that and in the end it wasn't working
 
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Nads said:
The ****e they coming out with about ‘we can’t spend’

How? They have spent a few quid but v PL income. Then they have their 2 snide sponsorships on the short and sleeve.

No way they don’t have FFP space what they mean is ‘this is investment fund money and we can’t just spend it’.

Cos, well, you can’t. It’s not their money is it?

Warren Buffet doesn’t own all the money in his hedge fund does he? This is no different.

The CEO of Barclays doesn’t have all their customer s balances to dip.

Am not buying that they can’t spend. I’m seeing that they don’t want to.
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They are right up against FFP Rules on wages and losses. It will be next year when the new sponsors kick in that will release the money
 
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Iain said:
I can see your point to a certain degree but I can see were people are coming from.
When you keep playing the same players, same tactics and the same set up when it's not working anymore, yet your not prepared to give others a chance and at least have different options with your set up.
I've never coached at that sort of level or even close to it, but the one thing I noticed was how predictable we had become and easy to defend against under Mowbray.
He could have tried switching Clarke and Roberts now and again as teams easily set up to defend against them cutting inside.
Trying to give a striker a run in the team,
Even switching to a 3-5-2 at times.
It's as though Roberts and Clarke were nailed on with the same formation and everyone else had to fit around that and in the end it wasn't working
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I was just playing a devils advocate thing mate. No problem with the arguments have about Mowbray going, or how he seemed to fizzle out, I dont agree them all but they are valid and well argued.

Mowbray is gone and I am ok with that. Clubs choice and they will have good reasons. I like Beale and think he might well be a success here.

I have a habit of defending coaches. They are an easy target for us fans when things get sticky. My opinion is a bit more shared accountability in those periods is warranted. I dont believe Mowbray, for example, didnt consider whether wing backs and a back 3, or 2 up front, or giving Adil a run, would improve us. With all of his know how he would have considered all sorts, along with his coaches. I can only assume he didnt think it would work. That is his judgement, and perhaps he paid the price for it. Not a defence of Mowbray by the way, an example that could be applied to most coaches.

Debating a coaches line up and subs and tactics etc is always interesting and I really enjoy doing it. I try to remember though they have 10 times more info than I do when they sit down to pick a team or a formation.
 
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FellTop said:
I was just playing a devils advocate thing mate. No problem with the arguments have about Mowbray going, or how he seemed to fizzle out, I dont agree them all but they are valid and well argued.

Mowbray is gone and I am ok with that. Clubs choice and they will have good reasons. I like Beale and think he might well be a success here.

I have a habit of defending coaches. They are an easy target for us fans when things get sticky. My opinion is a bit more shared accountability in those periods is warranted. I dont believe Mowbray, for example, didnt consider whether wing backs and a back 3, or 2 up front, or giving Adil a run, would improve us. With all of his know how he would have considered all sorts, along with his coaches. I can only assume he didnt think it would work. That is his judgement, and perhaps he paid the price for it. Not a defence of Mowbray by the way, an example that could be applied to most coaches.

Debating a coaches line up and subs and tactics etc is always interesting and I really enjoy doing it. I try to remember though they have 10 times more info than I do when they sit down to pick a team or a formation.
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Don't think it was TM's judgement...more his unwillingness to continue to work with the model presented to him.
As you say, Beale may well have more success with it....hoping so!!
My worry with it is....can Beale draw as much influence and respect from these young players as an older,wiser head quite clearly has done?
My guess is...yes...but,it may take some time.
 
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FellTop said:
Or, to play devils advocate, Mowbray was happy with the model as sold. He came and did his job, got great results and achieved immediate ambitions. Then they hit a point, at which he thinks the players he is given wont allow him to hit the targets the club place on him for the next season. As a coach he judges players and thinks they arent yet going to achieve what his bosses tells him his target is. In that circumstance I can see why he might be a bit defensive and grumbling. Supporters often, in my experience, think players are better than they are and often criticise a coaches tactics. I wonder how many of those have the expertise to criticise a coaches tactics in all seriousness. We can ponder and argue and debate whether a coach has run out of ideas, hit a wall, or is old fashioned. It is all just speculation though, and unless we have walked in their shoes that is all it really can be, speculation and opinions, never facts.
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I understand where you’re coming from and have no qualms at all with the coaching ability of either manager I mentioned. For the record I would have kept either at the time if their departure. My issue is this. If they want total control over player transfers, philosophy etc as Mowbray has alluded to, why take our job when that’s not what you’re going to get. That’s common knowledge. It’s always going to end up in frustration and that disrupts the club.
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Spending £400m in 2 seasons and whinging about FFP is hilarious. Going on like they’re performing miracles and massive underdogs week in week out creating this us against the world image. ****ers
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This. Bang on.

They have a spine of Pope - Botman - Bruno - Isak

It’s top quality and obviously cost a lot of money. They go on as if they’ve spent **** all <laugh>
 
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Culinary said:
We were heavily linked with him 5 or 6 years ago when he was at Scunthorpe.

He looked like a superb prospect but plateaued a bit. Glad to see he’s seemingly starting to fulfil some of his potential.
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To be fair that’s the type we go for
 
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FellTop said:
I was just playing a devils advocate thing mate. No problem with the arguments have about Mowbray going, or how he seemed to fizzle out, I dont agree them all but they are valid and well argued.

Mowbray is gone and I am ok with that. Clubs choice and they will have good reasons. I like Beale and think he might well be a success here.

I have a habit of defending coaches. They are an easy target for us fans when things get sticky. My opinion is a bit more shared accountability in those periods is warranted. I dont believe Mowbray, for example, didnt consider whether wing backs and a back 3, or 2 up front, or giving Adil a run, would improve us. With all of his know how he would have considered all sorts, along with his coaches. I can only assume he didnt think it would work. That is his judgement, and perhaps he paid the price for it. Not a defence of Mowbray by the way, an example that could be applied to most coaches.

Debating a coaches line up and subs and tactics etc is always interesting and I really enjoy doing it. I try to remember though they have 10 times more info than I do when they sit down to pick a team or a formation.
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Good post mate, it's so easy for us to judge from the side lines, like you say he maybes did look at those options and didn't think they were a better option. Had he changed things results could have been worse.
I suppose being a supporter is like being leader of the opposition, you can point out everything the people in charge are doing wrong and what you would do differently, but your job is not on the line if those decisions don't work out and make things worse
 
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Red n white Tractor said:
I understand where you’re coming from and have no qualms at all with the coaching ability of either manager I mentioned. For the record I would have kept either at the time if their departure. My issue is this. If they want total control over player transfers, philosophy etc as Mowbray has alluded to, why take our job when that’s not what you’re going to get. That’s common knowledge. It’s always going to end up in frustration and that disrupts the club.
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Good point mate. I wonder really if he has full control at Brum. Harvey was at Blackburn with him and they had big success together. So I reckon there is a bit of media poetic licence somewhere. He seemed happy at Blackburn, where I doubt he had complete control, but probably more than he did here. He has Craig Gardner at Brum in the Speakman role, and he has supposed to have been really influential down there with the recruitment team he has. Their structure looks similar to ours but I notice they use the manager name, not head coach.
 
Bob the Mackem said:
Ian is not touting Clarke if anyones is interested.
He is still happy here
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That's good although the fact he randomly talks about him when its close to a transfer window suggests he is making sure potential interested clubs don't forget he is available depending on fee.
 
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Oliver's Army said:
:emoticon-0136-giggl
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****ing hell, do they give anyone involved with that club intense 'be a ****er ' training for 8 weeks when they first sign. They all turn into absolute ****s once they been there a few months!

No ones our friends how will we manage without friends loaning us players. I dunno mate how about using one of the others players you have spent £350 million on ya daft ****!
 
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Daz said:
That's good although the fact he randomly talks about him when its close to a transfer window suggests he is making sure potential interested clubs don't forget he is available depending on fee.
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This all over! He might say he isn't touting him, might actually con himself that he isn't touting him but don't piss in my pocket and tell me it's raining Ian!
 
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