Tony Mowbray ...

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WorkyTicketFTM said:
Klopp was a sh*te footballer, great manager. Steve Bruce good footballer, sh*te manager.

Football isn’t what it used to be it there’s so much data driving the game that being a good footballer back in the day means nout. Individual talent has probably never meant as little as it does now.
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Where does that leave Parkinson then?
 
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FellTop said:
Just my opinion but getting rid of Mowbray is a really poor decision, and in my opinion a naieve one. I am not going to buy into the conspiracies about player revolts etc. This smacks of a senior team deciding upon a direction of travel for the club, despite all of the evidence to the contrary. Speakman and KLD talk about ambition and a high performance culture. Lets see their ambition now, they need a serious appointment here or they will look stupid. Anything less than playoffs for the new lad will be seen as failure. This could be a massive rod for their own backs. Needs to be someone in work for me, someone with a serious reputation. So far under KLD it has been coaches who are out of work, time to step up their game here in my opinion and back up words of ambition with an elite level coach.
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That's more or less where I am.

Fair to say though that its not just KLD who appoints out of work coaches. That has hardly ever happened here on a serious level. Bruce and Durban were the only ones I could think of yesterday when the subject was in the air.

If if isn’t done quickly and we are hunting around again, that would be the problem for me.

Usually harder to get a better one in than get the current one out.
 
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FellTop said:
Fair and balanced I would suggest. I am an exile surrounded by derby and forest fans. They all think it is very harsh and from the outside think we have madr brilliant progress under him.
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I don’t think it’s a balanced piece personally. I guess perception of fairness is often intertwined with how much it aligns with one’s own opinion.

We always have fans of other clubs telling us that our sackings are harsh too. Bruce was the worst I remember, largely born out of his friends in the media coming to his defence. I’m starting to see similar for Mowbray.
 
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TopCat_ said:
Clearly Louise Taylor is in the Mowbray fan club.

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...ays-price-overachieving-sunderland-youngsters
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Dreadful article that. First of all, he wasn't our manager. It's pretty basic stuff to at least get his job title correct. Completely ignores the point that you don't have to be doing dreadful to be allowed to make a change. Also talks about free flowing attacking football, something I failed to see in our games this season. Mentions the board being trigger happy yet the only coach they sacked was Johnson, which outsiders gave them pelters for, yet was the correct decision. Talks about Mowbray helping to attract players yet Amad was coming last season under Neil, and Clarke joined on loan and then signed on a permanent under Neil. Pathetic piece of journalism.
 
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Sour Patch said:
Dreadful article that. Completely ignores the point that you don't have to be doing dreadful to be allowed to make a change. Also talks about free flowing attacking football, something I failed to see in our games this season. Mentions the board being trigger happy yet the only coach they sacked was Johnson, which outsiders gave them pelters for, yet was the correct decision. Talks about Mowbray helping to attract players yet Amad was coming last season under Neil, and Clarke joined on loan and then signed on a permanent under Neil. Pathetic piece of journalism.
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The club can make a change whenever they want. Managers can walk away when they want. People are entitled to disagree though as to whether it is right or wrong.

They have now sacked Johnson and Mowbray, 2 out of 3. Both will be seen as harsh by those on the outside at the time they happened. It was a general observation about Mowbrays history with players I suspect, but also suggests Burstow was sent here partly because of Mowbray. It is really well known how highly regarded Mowbray is at developing young players and clubs trust him. You cant just pick and choose examples and ignore others.
 
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WorkyTicketFTM said:
They’ve given one a fair chance, we haven’t. He only had 1GA in the first 7 or so games of the season, TM would’ve had him playing for the u23s :emoticon-0102-bigsm
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Well you can't say Mowbray doesn't give young players a chance whe he regularly turns out the youngest team in the country. But they have to show something.

We get countless balls into the box, not all good ones but not all bad. Only Rusyn has shown the type of constant movement likely to capitalise.

Semedo and Mayenda look just not ready, though you can see signs. Burstow has a good close technique, but is too easily brushed off the ball and becomes static too quickly.

Anyway, just how I see it. But they'll all get a new bloke soon, and then we'll see.
 
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Culinary said:
I don’t think it’s a balanced piece personally. I guess perception of fairness is often intertwined with how much it aligns with one’s own opinion.

We always have fans of other clubs telling us that our sackings are harsh too. Bruce was the worst I remember, largely born out of his friends in the media coming to his defence. I’m starting to see similar for Mowbray.
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Fair enough mate. Seems to me, in other areas of the media, and to an extent on here Mowbray was well past his sell by date and we shouldnt question whether he was harshly treated or not. Like you say, will always happen, and it is about opinions. Hopefully it is 3 or 4 years with a new guy before we are arguing over whether a manager should have gone or not.
 
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FellTop said:
The club can make a change whenever they want. Managers can walk away when they want. People are entitled to disagree though as to whether it is right or wrong.

They have now sacked Johnson and Mowbray, 2 out of 3. Both will be seen as harsh by those on the outside at the time they happened. It was a general observation about Mowbrays history with players I suspect, but also suggests Burstow was sent here partly because of Mowbray. It is really well known how highly regarded Mowbray is at developing young players and clubs trust him. You cant just pick and choose examples and ignore others.
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I don’t disagree with you about Mowbray and his reputation as a development coach but we, as a club now, are almost entirely geared up for player development with a focus on youth. The coaching infrastructure we have in place, the game time and progression available to prospects, not to mention the advantages of the size of our crowds and the training facilities already there and will remain so. The new head coach will, almost guaranteed, have a reputation and/or competence for developing players too.

I really don’t think Mowbray’s departure will have any sort of a significant impact on our appeal to bigger clubs in terms of to whom they’d loan their best prospects.
 
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FellTop said:
The club can make a change whenever they want. Managers can walk away when they want. People are entitled to disagree though as to whether it is right or wrong.

They have now sacked Johnson and Mowbray, 2 out of 3. Both will be seen as harsh by those on the outside at the time they happened. It was a general observation about Mowbrays history with players I suspect, but also suggests Burstow was sent here partly because of Mowbray. It is really well known how highly regarded Mowbray is at developing young players and clubs trust him. You cant just pick and choose examples and ignore others.
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The mistake they made was not doing it in the summer. If they truly believed Mowbray wasn't right for their model then they should have ignored all the outside noise and pulled the trigger then. This has clearly been festering for a while. Not that I wanted him out but if they wanted him out they should have done it in May. Its pretty much 3 games a week now and we'll be hiring a foreign coach so what real impact can he have on training ground.
 
FellTop said:
The club can make a change whenever they want. Managers can walk away when they want. People are entitled to disagree though as to whether it is right or wrong.

They have now sacked Johnson and Mowbray, 2 out of 3. Both will be seen as harsh by those on the outside at the time they happened. It was a general observation about Mowbrays history with players I suspect, but also suggests Burstow was sent here partly because of Mowbray. It is really well known how highly regarded Mowbray is at developing young players and clubs trust him. You cant just pick and choose examples and ignore others.
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We've signed 2 players on loan since Mowbray has been in charge, Gelhardt and Burstow. Not sure keeping Mowbray around for his ability to attract loan players is worth it if them two are the type of players we will get? And an article defending Mowbray while he says he doesn't have a striker but then using Burstows signing as an example of why Mowbray is good is completely contradictory. It's a dreadful, unbalanced article that doesn't even get his job title correct.
 
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Sour Patch said:
We've signed 2 players on loan since Mowbray has been in charge, Gelhardt and Burstow. Not sure keeping Mowbray around for his ability to attract loan players is worth it if them two are the type of players we will get? And an article defending Mowbray saying he doesn't have a striker but then using Burstows signing as an example of why Mowbray is good is completely contradictory. It's a dreadful, unbalanced article that doesn't even get his job title correct.
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ha I hadn’t noticed that.

“Mowbray doesn’t have any strikers”….

“now Sunderland won’t get any loans like Burstow”

:D
 
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FellTop said:
Fair and balanced I would suggest. I am an exile surrounded by derby and forest fans. They all think it is very harsh and from the outside think we have madr brilliant progress under him.
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Did not read the full piece and stopped after a few paragraphs when they started mentioning our policy of buy young and sell for profit. There is absolutely no proof of this and it is not something the club have ever stated.
However I do have some sympathy with Mowbray and believe that he deserved a bit more time to turn things around but the last 3 or 4 games have been difficult to watch as there has been no tactical change and all we have been doing is feeding Clark and Roberts the ball and hoping for something to happen. I have been expecting a tactical switch from Mowbray for some weeks now and it never materialised or looked like it would.
Really hope a new appointment brings some success and it may be that the club letting Mowbray go was more of a mutual decision than most fans would like to admit as we get to hopefully move on and progress and TM keeps his reputation intact and can hopefully move forward and progress his career.
 
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Some stats.

Last season we scored more goals than expected (68 Vs 62) and conceded less than expected (55 Vs 57.7)

This season, so far, we've scored less than expected (29 Vs 32) and conceded more (22 Vs 20.6)

Interestingly enough, goals per game and goals conceded per game are the same for both seasons (1.5 and 1.2).

Management is fine lines. If he hadn't overachieved last season (according to stats) he probably would have gone in then summer (wouldn't have gotten to the playoff), but if he hadn't underachieved the season then he probably wouldn't have gotten sacked now.

Stats are funny things, so take that as you will.
 
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