Off Topic The Politics Thread

[Uber_Hoop]

Yeah, but you're just a senile old racist with a low IQ.

Would you voted to leave without a deal, if that was what was on offer?

Not my preferred outcome, no.

There are at least two sides to every negotiation, though. No Deal means that neither the UK not the EU reached an agreement. Johnson is right about that.

Honestly, it’s getting to be like trying to leave some sort of religious sect.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

You fail to acknowledge the lie that was peddled during the Independance referendum - voting to stay in the Union was our only guarantee of staying in the EU. Politician after politician, of both Tory and Labour, stated that Scotland would be kicked out of the EU were they to gain Independance, backed up by claims from minsters across the EU, and then told they'd be at the back of the queue for re-joining. This argument held solid ground and was a major factor in "No" winning 55-45%.

First thing ****y-baws Cameron stated after the result, stood behind his podium in Downing Street....It's time to think about England. Roll on 12 months, and he wins the GE, giving in to the demands of an EU referendum - we all know what happened next, but the promises made to the people of Scotland over EU membership are handily forgotten......

Backed up by ministers across the EU?

 

[Steelmonkey]

Backed up by ministers across the EU?

Scottish independence: Could Spain veto Scotland in the EU? - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-sc...ependence-could-spain-veto-scotland-in-the-eu

Here's how they planned to "rejoin" if the vote was "Yes"....

An Independent Scotland: The Road to Membership of the European Union | Centre on Constitutional Change l Researching the issues. Informing the debate. https://www.centreonconstitutionalc...ndent-scotland-road-membership-european-union

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Not my preferred outcome, no.

There are at least two sides to every negotiation, though. No Deal means that neither the UK not the EU reached an agreement. Johnson is right about that.

Honestly, it’s getting to be like trying to leave some sort of religious sect.

So if the options were to leave with no deal, or remain, what would you have chosen?

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Of course it is.

We voted to leave ,not for a deal.

Round and round we go.

Do you think enough voters understood the implications of various outcomes?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

So if the options were to leave with no deal, or remain, what would you have chosen?

Leave.

I’ll never be asked again during my lifetime.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Scottish independence: Could Spain veto Scotland in the EU? - BBC News https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-sc...ependence-could-spain-veto-scotland-in-the-eu

Here's how they planned to "rejoin" if the vote was "Yes"....

An Independent Scotland: The Road to Membership of the European Union | Centre on Constitutional Change l Researching the issues. Informing the debate. https://www.centreonconstitutionalc...ndent-scotland-road-membership-european-union

Rock and a hard place, huh?

 

[Woodyhoopleson]

Leave.

I’ll never be asked again during my lifetime.

Would you like to stay or leave?

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Would you like to stay or leave?

Hmmm... tough one.

 

[Staines R's]

This is not going to be a pro EU rant but rather a pro UK one. One of the side products of Brexit has been the further deterioration of relations between England and Scotland. I believe that a hard Brexit will, almost certainly, eventually lead to the break up of the UK. Did you realise that this was a possibility when voting in the referendum ? Did leave voters realise that they were driving a wedge through the UK ? Is the separation from the EU more important than the preservation of the United Kingdom ? I genuinely want to know this - would you want a hard Brexit if it leads to the break up of the UK ? It is time to give Brexit it's true name - it has little to do with Britain, but is rather a rebirth of English nationalism. Are you ready for an independent England, because that is the inevitable conclusion to the course you are taking - give it it's real name.

With respect, your statement that the break up of the union is the ‘inevitable conclusion’ is rubbish.....

Of course it might be a possibility but to say it’s ‘inevitable’ is wrong....

 

[sb_73]

Ossie, even you must admit that things are always made far worse when there's uncertainty, surely? We all should be prepared to admit that markets adjust soon enough once they understand what the new playing field looks like. They might not look and act the same as before, but they function far more effectively and positively once there's clarity.

Markets don’t have consciousness or intelligence. They are run on computer algorithms and human herd instinct emotion. Markets have recovered well since the global financial bollocks up of 2008. Average incomes and living standards haven’t. The FTSE hit an 11 month high today, as the £ sank. **** the markets, like they **** us.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Markets don’t have consciousness or intelligence. They are run on computer algorithms and human herd instinct emotion. Markets have recovered well since the global financial bollocks up of 2008. Average incomes and living standards haven’t. The FTSE hit an 11 month high today, as the £ sank. **** the markets, like they **** us.

Not entirely true, Stan.

Markets are broad things and not just limited to quotable securities. I know stuff, me.

 

[sb_73]

Not entirely true, Stan.

Markets are broad things and not just limited to quotable securities. I know stuff, me.

Which bits aren’t true? Stock markets are at or close to record highs, yet we still have austerity and lower standards of living than in 2007. Handily, if they plummet it will lead to more austerity for millions of people who have never held a share certificate in their lives. Currency markets seem to work in the same way, but at least ordinary people can sometimes benefit when they go on holiday (obviously not at the moment).

What markets are you referring too? Commodities? ****ing derivatives? Smithfield?

 

[sb_73]

According to his ex employers at the Telegraph, usually well informed on Tory matters, Johnson is asking the EU to extend the ‘implementation’ period from one to two years, during which the UK would stay in the Single Market and Customs Union, and offering to pay for the privilege, in return for getting the backstop changed and buying time to get a trade deal in place.

Meanwhile it appears that a couple of years ago Dominic ‘Nutter’ Cummings let slip that the instincts of the public about Tory MPs is correct - they don’t care about poor people or the NHS. Mind you he hasn’t got much good stuff to say about the hard line Brexiters either

https://www.buzzfeed.com/alexwickham/15-things-dominic-cummings-tory-mps

I kind of like him. Farage having a go at him tonight and the ERG hate him.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

Which bits aren’t true? Stock markets are at or close to record highs, yet we still have austerity and lower standards of living than in 2007. Handily, if they plummet it will lead to more austerity for millions of people who have never held a share certificate in their lives. Currency markets seem to work in the same way, but at least ordinary people can sometimes benefit when they go on holiday (obviously not at the moment).

What markets are you referring too? Commodities? ****ing derivatives? Smithfield?

I’m not restricting my comments just to quotable securities. By markets, I mean the world of commerce in general. The current climate of uncertainty means businesses are cautious about investing, consumers are less inclined to spend etc. It’s all about confidence as it always has been when it comes to peaks & troughs, boom & bust.

 

[Uber_Hoop]

According to his ex employers at the Telegraph, usually well informed on Tory matters, Johnson is asking the EU to extend the ‘implementation’ period from one to two years, during which the UK would stay in the Single Market and Customs Union, and offering to pay for the privilege, in return for getting the backstop changed and buying time to get a trade deal in place.

So, what’s your opinion on that, Stan?

It’s not a million miles away from what I was suggesting in a post earlier today. We effectively pay for the privilege as a member state today anyway, don’t we?

Sounds perfectly sensible to me, if true.

 

[kiwiqpr]

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So which remain did the remainers vote for


The one that was in place the day of the vote

Or the one that requires a further transfer of powers

Maybe a European income tax
Or join a Euro army
Or if you want to stay in you give up the pound

 

[Sooperhoop]

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So which remain did the remainers vote for


The one that was in place the day of the vote

Or the one that requires a further transfer of powers

Maybe a European income tax
Or join a Euro army
Or if you want to stay in you give up the pound

The irony is most remainers, particularly the young, would run a mile from joining an army of any shape or size...

 

[Turkish" Premier" Hoops]

We haven't established it, you've said it. I'm not aware of anyone discussing it, least of all Leave campaigners. You and others on here have always maintained that anything Cameron and Osborne put out was horrendously exaggerated to frighten people into voting Remain. Who'd have thought that Project Fear would be proved to be Project Fact after all? Would you like to apologise?

How do you work out that project fear is now project fact, nobody knows what will occur when we leave, then and only then will the remainer project fear / scaremongering or the leavers look nothing is going to change we’re going to be billions better off scenarios be found out, until then everything said by either side is pie in the sky.

 

[Deleted.......]

So, what’s your opinion on that, Stan?

It’s not a million miles away from what I was suggesting in a post earlier today. We effectively pay for the privilege as a member state today anyway, don’t we?

Sounds perfectly sensible to me, if true.

I'm not Stan but sounds a good compromise and if it's true it's reassuring to know he is considering different options. Have to wait and see what the reaction is obviously!