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Smug in Boots said:
Friday night 11.39pm - <cheers>

I'd have thought it was pretty obvious I was playing devil's advocate and suggesting various scenarios. It's a valid question, on a transfer thread, because he's taking a wage that may be eating into the transfer budget.

Now, do you have any transfer news or are you just here for an argument <laugh>
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Scenario is a hard one, either way no doubt club will get criticism, look at Man Utd, i do think they put the feelers out how it would look if the kept him, they did that as ges a good player, not as talented & he would be gone straight away. Man Utd were criticised for taking to long, if they did it in blink of an eye they would have been criticised for not being to througher....no doubt that will come of City & Mendy

Its hard even if proved guilty or innocent to understand exactly what went on & if corect result was obtained, Mendy possibly did something not sure, seems a bit iffy, forgot his name, lad who got jail overturned now back playing, very difficult & really players need some string guidance in the background about not putting themselves in these situations, i guess a modern day version of Brian Clough sort of pushing players to get married as he knew they would settle down a bit
 
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Nads said:
See, he’d be the last I’d sell.

His stats were lowered by giving the ball to Amad, I’d love to know his ‘pass to assist’ or ‘key pass’ stats.

Little between him and Jacky for me, both superb, but Jacks more direct and runs it more, so is more eye catching. I think Roberts will shoot more without Amad so we will see, reckon their stats be very similar
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Here you go mate, stats for last year for Roberts, Clarke and Amad

https://fbref.com/tiny/D42u3

Edit. Clarke carried the ball 11800 yards last year, Roberts and Amad both at 8000 ish. That alone shows how much Clarke helps drive us forward
 
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Smug in Boots said:
That's all fine by me mate.

I just believe we, as the club, should pay him off if we believe he's culpable.
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We can't do that as its an ongoing legal case and doing that might influence trial. We are doing everything correctly and will sack him officially once its all done and he is found guilty. If innocent we will carry out our own investigation and decide whether he should be kept on. I'd be very very surprised if he plays for us again.
 
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Mackem74 said:
We can't do that as its an ongoing legal case and doing that might influence trial. We are doing everything correctly and will sack him officially once its all done and he is found guilty. If innocent we will carry out our own investigation and decide whether he should be kept on. I'd be very very surprised if he plays for us again.
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Thanks, makes sense although I was wondering if we could pay him off if he agrees to that.

I can't imagine he'll play for us again so we'd be losing nowt. If he's found guilty at least it wouldn't be as a current Sunderland player.
 
Smug in Boots said:
Thanks, makes sense although I was wondering if we could pay him off if he agrees to that.

I can't imagine he'll play for us again so we'd be losing nowt. If he's found guilty at least it wouldn't be as a current Sunderland player.
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Again club probably cant win, we would then probably get accused of effecting outcome of the trail by insinuating hes guilty of something...even if that something isnt illegal, really difficult for clubs in these scenarios
 
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Smug in Boots said:
Thanks, makes sense although I was wondering if we could pay him off if he agrees to that.

I can't imagine he'll play for us again so we'd be losing nowt. If he's found guilty at least it wouldn't be as a current Sunderland player.
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You also said about him taking a wage. Pay him off and he’ll be looking for his contract in full otherwise it’s an addition of guilt I.e. you’ll be sacking me before my contracts up so I’ll take what I can. Biding our time we pay out minimum we need to.
 
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Hard to compare Roberts and Clarke because they’re so different, as mentioned one is direct whilst the other isn’t as quick but is more technical.

Thing with Roberts is that he ALWAYS has at least 2 men marking him and this season so far we aren’t using that to our advantage. I can’t remember seeing a full back mark him out of the game. Clarke does has off games where he’s stifled by the opposition RB.
 
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Nads said:
Absolutely. Utter disgrace they are publicly named.

Going back to Mendy is prime example. Everyone assumed his guilt (ashamed to say myself included) and there was weighty evidence that he didn’t do it, he was legitimately innocent.

Trial by media is a ****ing horror show.
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I worked with a lad three years ago who was from the South and working up here.

He went out on a date, and the next day was answering the usual questions, and saying he'd had a great night, and he'd like to see her again as she had asked him to call round that evening.

About an hour later the police turned up. He was marched away and charged with rape. Hell on. I've never seen a man so visibly shocked.

Long story, but he later told us that at his second interview with plod, they more or less assured him that they believed him and not her but the process had to be followed. Phones from both parties confiscated and loads of other stuff. All the evidence seemed to point to his innocence, which was the case, but it took about ten weeks for him to be told that charges were dropped. And he was just Joe public as it were, not a footballer at a big club.

Innocent until proven guilty, or we are all sunk.
 
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Ozzymac said:
Clarke also started a 3rd more matches than Roberts and Amad
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He did, but that's still a huge difference in carries. Although it interesting that Roberts isn't far behind Clarke in shots taken, which most would suggest he is the more "shot shy" of the 2
 
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rowley said:
I worked with a lad three years ago who was from the South and working up here.

He went out on a date, and the next day was answering the usual questions, and saying he'd had a great night, and he'd like to see her again as she had asked him to call round that evening.

About an hour later the police turned up. He was marched away and charged with rape. Hell on. I've never seen a man so visibly shocked.

Long story, but he later told us that at his second interview with plod, they more or less assured him that they believed him and not her but the process had to be followed. Phones from both parties confiscated and loads of other stuff. All the evidence seemed to point to his innocence, which was the case, but it took about ten weeks for him to be told that charges were dropped. And he was just Joe public as it were, not a footballer at a big club.

Innocent until proven guilty, or we are all sunk.
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I did jury service in January, sat on two rape trials both of which got a not guilty verdict. Both were cases where the bloke said it was consensual but the woman said not. No witnesses, so it's impossible to achieve the level of certainty required (as directed by the judge) to return a guilty verdict.
 
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rowley said:
I worked with a lad three years ago who was from the South and working up here.

He went out on a date, and the next day was answering the usual questions, and saying he'd had a great night, and he'd like to see her again as she had asked him to call round that evening.

About an hour later the police turned up. He was marched away and charged with rape. Hell on. I've never seen a man so visibly shocked.

Long story, but he later told us that at his second interview with plod, they more or less assured him that they believed him and not her but the process had to be followed. Phones from both parties confiscated and loads of other stuff. All the evidence seemed to point to his innocence, which was the case, but it took about ten weeks for him to be told that charges were dropped. And he was just Joe public as it were, not a footballer at a big club.

Innocent until proven guilty, or we are all sunk.
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Your comment is spot on pal but that last paragraph hit the nail on the head. Obviously just my uneducated guess because I’m not a lawyer but the police have probably already looked at the evidence and deemed it suffice to not only charge him but go through court which means they likely have a case against him. Confiscating phones etc happens well before it gets to this stage.
 
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Chunksafc said:
He did, but that's still a huge difference in carries. Although it interesting that Roberts isn't far behind Clarke in shots taken, which most would suggest he is the more "shot shy" of the 2
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Chunksafc said:
He did, but that's still a huge difference in carries. Although it interesting that Roberts isn't far behind Clarke in shots taken, which most would suggest he is the more "shot shy" of the 2
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1100 more minutes than either of them too. That;s an additional 12 matches.

Not saying he's not important but stats can be misleading and interpreted so many ways. For example...

In those extra 12 matches of playing time he managed not only les passes but less completed passes too. Some may look at that as to say he's ball greedy and wasteful
 
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Ozzymac said:
1100 more minutes than either of them too. That;s an additional 12 matches.

Not saying he's not important but stats can be misleading and interpreted so many ways. For example...

In those extra 12 matches of playing time he managed not only les passes but less completed passes too. Some may look at that as to say he's ball greedy and wasteful
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As with everything it's open to interpretation depending on personal viewpoint on players.

For me it shows all 3 were crucial to our success last season, be that in ball carries, chance creation or shots. It also shows how Clarke did more than his fair share of defence work as well.

It's quite interesting when you dig into it, especially after games to see what the stats say compared to what your eyes saw
 
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Smug in Boots said:
So if the club are treating him as innocent why is he suspended.
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He is innocent until proven otherwise in a Court of Law.. The Club will have suspended him, I would expect without pay, until he reaches Court.. A Guilty verdict would be the club following procedures, a not guilty and his wages would be restored and he be brought back into the fold would seem the obvious course.
 
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