Rosenior Out

[zimozimo]

Obviously. But we didn’t have them last summer, so them leaving doesn’t actually make us weaker than we were then, does it?

It’s like if you have a mate that lends you a hat, and after a few days you give it back. You had zero hats before you borrowed the hat, and you’ve gone back to having zero hats. Not minus-one hats.

It does when they’re largely the reason why we were so successful this season.

We aren’t just replacing loanees, we are replacing premier league quality players in 3 cases.

Our form has been worse since we signed all the players we did in January. It seems to have really disrupted us, and was probably too much at once, in hindsight.

And we haven’t signed Premier League quality players, we’ve signed potentially Premier League quality players. None of them have seriously broken into the first team at their parent clubs in the top flight, and if they were currently good enough they wouldn’t be with us.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

Our form has been worse since we signed all the players we did in January. It seems to have really disrupted us, and was probably too much at once in hindsight.

And we haven’t signed Premier League quality players, we’ve signed potentially Premier League quality players. None of them have seriously broken into the first team at their parent clubs in the top flight, and if they were currently good enough they wouldn’t be with us.

All of which have been top performers for us since they joined. All of them will be playing it next season.

 

[bradymk2]

what killed our play off hopes
were 4 points from 18

scoring 5 goals in 6 games

 

[zimozimo]

All of which have been top performers for us since they joined. All of them will be playing it next season.

I'm not sure they have all been top performers for us or that they'll definitely be playing in the Premier League.

Carvalho – Has scored goals when no one else has, but unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Morton – Looked really good for us initially, but has dropped off somewhat since Christmas. Unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Delap – Unlikely to get an opportunity at Man City. Would need to be sold. Injury and lack of game time has probably scuppered that.
Zaroury – Not getting a look in at Burnley, who will be relegated anyway. Hasn't really contributed much at City either.
Giles – Likely to be with us.
Ohio – Has't featured for us, really. Won't be in the PL.

 

[bradymk2]

I'm not sure they have all been top performers for us or that they'll definitely be playing in the Premier League.

Carvalho – Has scored goals when no one else has, but unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Morton – Looked really good for us initially, but has dropped off somewhat since Christmas. Unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Delap – Unlikely to get an opportunity at Man City. Would need to be sold. Injury and lack of game time has probably scuppered that.
Zaroury – Not getting a look in at Burnley, who will be relegated anyway. Hasn't really contributed much at City anyway.
Giles – Likely to be with us.
Ohio – Won't be in the PL.

Yea but theres a difference between playing for premier league title challenging teams and forest

 

[zimozimo]

Yea but theres a difference between playing for premier league title challenging teams and forest

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

 

[bradymk2]

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make.

Whats your point?
We have underpeformed

 

[NewcastleTiger]

I'm not sure they have all been top performers for us or that they'll definitely be playing in the Premier League.

Carvalho – Has scored goals when no one else has, but unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Morton – Looked really good for us initially, but has dropped off somewhat since Christmas. Unlikely to get an opportunity at Liverpool. Would need to be sold.
Delap – Unlikely to get an opportunity at Man City. Would need to be sold. Injury and lack of game time has probably scuppered that.
Zaroury – Not getting a look in at Burnley, who will be relegated anyway. Hasn't really contributed much at City either.
Giles – Likely to be with us.
Ohio – Has't featured for us, really. Won't be in the PL.

Sorry I forgot I said they’ll all be playing for their parent club.

 

[zimozimo]

Whats your point?
We have underpeformed

NewcastleTiger said that three of our January loan signings have been instrumental to our season and are all Premier League quality. We have under performed, with some really mixed performances from said loan players, none of which are actually breaking into the PL, or likely to do so next season either. So at this point in time, all they are is good Championship players that are potentially Premier League quality. If they had reached that potential, they wouldn't be here with us, they'd be playing in the Premier League. It's not complicated.

 

[bradymk2]

NewcastleTiger said that three of our January loan signings have been instrumental to our season and are all Premier League quality. We have under performed, with some really mixed performances from said loan players, none of which are actually breaking into the PL, or likely to do so next season either. So at this point in time, all they are is good Championship players that are potentially Premier League quality. If they had reached that potential, they wouldn't be here with us, they'd be playing in the Premier League. It's not complicated.

Has rosie underperformed?

 

[NewcastleTiger]

NewcastleTiger said that three of our January loan signings have been instrumental to our season and are all Premier League quality. We have under performed, with some really mixed performances from said loan players, none of which are actually breaking into the PL, or likely to do so next season either. So at this point in time, all they are is good Championship players that are potentially Premier League quality. If they had reached that potential, they wouldn't be here with us, they'd be playing in the Premier League. It's not complicated.

Morton will be in the PL next season, Delap I believe will also be. Carvalho will also play for one. Making them in my eyes premier league level players.

 

[zimozimo]

Sorry I forgot I said they’ll all be playing for their parent club.

I clearly stated that some of the players would need to be sold if they're going to play in the Premier League, as it obviously isn't going to be for their parent club. There are no guarantees a Premier League team would go in for any of them though.

 

[bradymk2]

Morton will be in the PL next season, Delap I believe will also be. Carvalho will also play for one. Making them in my eyes premier league level players.

My point also was
Just becasue morton and carvalho might not play for liverpool
Does not mean they cant play for a team like palace or forest etc

Liverpool are fighting for titles

Same with delap and man city

Although i think delaps injury has probably increased our chances

If he hadnt have gotten injured, he'd have so many interestrd teams after another 4 months of good play

 

[Tony Angelino]

Obviously. But we didn’t have them last summer, so them leaving doesn’t actually make us weaker than we were then, does it?

It’s like if you have a mate that lends you a hat, and after a few days you give it back. You had zero hats before you borrowed the hat, and you’ve gone back to having zero hats. Not minus-one hats.

Not the same, I borrow a hat and give it back. I then don’t need to buy a similar or better hat to improve.
We lose a bulk of the squad, most of which are better than the core (that’s why they are here).
We also lose some of that core squad, we need to replace them all and the loans with better players to reach the playoffs

 

[bradymk2]

Not the same, I borrow a hat and give it back. I then don’t need to buy a similar or better hat to improve.
We lose a bulk of the squad, most of which are better than the core (that’s why they are here).
We also lose some of that core squad, we need to replace them all and the loans with better players to reach the playoffs

Exactly
That analogy doesnt work at all in football

And its why im on tentative about rosie
As im not too sure he can be successful with another rebuild

 

[zimozimo]

Has rosie underperformed?

So far, he's averaged 1.425 points a game since becoming our manager, which is just below play-off places form. So I don't think that he has underperformed, generally speaking, considering the dire state the club has been in over the last several years.

Edit: for context, 1.522 points per game is the average for securing a 6th place finish. 2.000 points a game sees you finish top, and to avoid relegation, you normally need 1.000 point a game.

 

[thetiger1966]

David Prutton made a good point on the 1904 podcast, basically saying our squad is not as good as everyone likes to make out and I have to agree.

Delap - Scored 1 goal at Preston, 3 goals at Stoke

Morton - Only his second full season, first season he got 2 assists

Philogene - 4 goals and 1 assist at Cardiff last season

Zaroury - 7 goals and 5 assists at Burnley

Connolly - 2 goals at Middlesbrough

The best of the bunch is Carvalho - 10 goals and 8 assists nearly 3 years ago but has struggled since

Think people need to realise we haven’t signed players that are going to piss the league, we’ve got players with potential, some early in their careers, and some that need to prove themselves.

The issue is no matter what players we sign they will end up playing Rosenior's style of football ie playing out from the back & inviting the press
Personally this style bores me to tears & it's not enjoyable to watch
I couldn't care less about City being in The Premier League. Some of the most memorable games I've been to were in Div 2 & Div1 under Peter Taylor when we played fast counter attacking football & put 3/4/5 goals past teams
Thats what fans want to see, we want to be entertained & be up off our seats as City bear down on goal
I've supported City for 50 years but if Rosenior insists on his team playing the current style of football then I won't be going to watch it as its boring & frustrating & I get no enjoyment from it

 

[zimozimo]

The issue is no matter what players we sign they will end up playing Rosenior's style of football ie playing out from back & inviting the press
Personally this style bores me to tears & it's not enjoyable to watch
I couldn't care less about City being in The Premier League. Some of the most memorable games I've been to were in Div 2 & Div1 under Peter Taylor when we played fast counter attacking football & put 3/4/5 goals past teams
Thats what fans want to see, we want to be entertained & be up off our seats as City bear down on goal
I've supported City for 50 years but if Rosenior insists on his team playing the current style of football then I won't be going to watch it as its boring & frustrating & I get no enjoyment from it

It's mad that of all of the truly – truly – awful football city have played over those 50 years, that it would be Rosenior's style of play that would be too much to handle. It's almost as if it's about something else, and not the football at all.

 

[NewcastleTiger]

It's mad that of all of the truly – truly – awful football city have played over those 50 years, that it would be Rosenior's style of play that would be too much to handle. It's almost as if it's about something else, and not the football at all.

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Rosenior has brought a good season on the whole in terms of excitement. That’s looking at the table. When you watch the football we play, it’s mind numbingly boring and that’s an opinion that many share. If you think it’s something deeper than that that’s on you.

 

[zimozimo]

What a ridiculous thing to say.

Rosenior has brought a good season on the whole in terms of excitement. That’s looking at the table. When you watch the football we play, it’s mind numbingly boring and that’s an opinion that many share. If you think it’s something deeper than that that’s on you.

It's not ridiculous at all. Rosenior's style of play is undeniably better than a lot of the garbage football played by city over the last half century. Even just thinking about recent history, are you saying that if someone stuck by the team through the terrible Allam years, when it felt like their was no joy and hope, that the club might cease to exist, that we would never be free from that, that all that dedication and hard work of being a supporter could all be undone by some sideways passing? The way some posters on here seem to froth at the mouth when declaring this is all a step too far and they'll never attend again, it has to be something else.