Off Topic Politics Thread

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VocalMinority said:
No our production won't drop to 0. That doesn't happen even in ruined countries like Somalia.

Little hard to argue this because you haven't provided alternatives or even any negatives or positives so I'll just give future predictions.

Japan is at a very similar level of economic development to our own currently. Japan used to be colonised by China which is why they use Chinese script. China naturally should be on equal footing to us. They have fertile land and decent resources. They were at a high level of technical advancement having developed gunpowder etc before us. But they were very slow to adopt globalism. Japan however were very quick, had a revolution on the subject, And as such their economy quickly grew to the point they were able to invade China by ww2.

After world war 2 Japan continued to be heavily intertwined with the West so has advanced to the point of being our equal. But China has also opened up more, albeit very carefully, after we sided with them during the war. Since they were stunted for a long time by refusing globalism, this means they are a long way behind where they should be and are catching up and will eventually take their place as an equal as the resources they have available means they should be. This is an inevitability no matter what we do.

In the short term Japan has one of the highest debts in the world. And if you remember that article about Greece. The way you reduce debt is by increasing exports and reducing your buying power. So that is what Japan is currently doing and will do over the next decade. Past that it will continue to be a near identical country to our own.

China is increasing its manufacturing so in the short to medium term this will give us small market for mass produced goods like cheap cars and a bigger market with more money to export our high end goods to which is why we are currently able to increase the services sector. Long term is more likely to be affected by resource shortages and technology so harder to predict. If they take over our finance industries we can slowly migrate back to manufacturing which will result in a lower per capita GDP and lower wages. But since that's what you seem to be suggesting anyway(?) I don't see you having an issue with that?
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This is a good post.

I don't mean zero I mean break even. Will we have enough stuff to sell that other will buy to support the population that lives here is what I mean.

How do we migrate back to manufacturing (in the result in changes to the financial centres) IF we don't have a saleable product. Seems you are suggesting by lower wages that we would have to slash "standard of living" to compete in that area again?

No it isn't what I am suggesting as being a good thing. I am saying that is what could (not will) happen. Yes I do have an issue with it. We are already in that area of low wages with the multinationals and large employers plus the gig economy forcing wages down. Yes there are some pretty good jobs created at the other end with great salaries but the vast bulk of the jobs are seeing wages forced down from induced competition for those jobs.
 
VocalMinority said:
Oh and just to add, while Japan has one of the highest debts in the world. It's going down and they still invest much more per person in education than our government and have far better public services and police force....
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Are you including all the student loans that don't get paid back by students in our government's investment?

And one would have to ask in that case, if Japan are getting so much more than us, where is all our money going? If we aren't getting as much as them despite borrowing while they get more but are paying debt off, what on earth has been going on in this country for the past 30 years?
 
Onionman said:
Called it!



Vin
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You call me cynic and you think I am wording what I write deliberately to "frame" things as a question?

You didn't call anything. You just decided that me asking a question was a tactic rather than it.....just being a question.

My forecast - We are doomed unless we change. "We" meaning Europe as a whole.
 
Archers Road said:
[Corbyn] won’t ever be an enthusiastic proponent of a 2nd referendum, but he is being brought round to that position by the rest of the Labour Party, by which I mean the grassroots, who he respects more than he does the PLP.
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He has 15 days left to turn and today wastes one of them. Apologies if I don't hold my breath:

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Vin
 
ImpSaint said:
You call me cynic and you think I am wording what I write deliberately to "frame" things as a question?
You didn't call anything. You just decided that me asking a question was a tactic rather than it.....just being a question.
My forecast - We are doomed unless we change. "We" meaning Europe as a whole.
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Mankind as a whole is probably doomed but in the meantime we are caught in the cult of the ignorant

“Don’t believe anyone who knows anything they’re just trying to dupe you. You can only trust those who know nothing. Honesty always trumps (!) expertise even when it’s uninformed”

Trump Brexit MMR, all part of the same cult
 
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Good to see the Tories are taking today's debate seriously, listening to every point made and forming their opinions... Oh, hang on, they haven't bothered to turn up.

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Vin
 
occasionally I have just sat and watched in wonder as the sun sinks slowly into the sea. Besides me are a millionaire who has just walked down from his hotel and and a man flogging dodgy sunglasses. At that moment in time we are all in the same place with the same thoughts. It doesn't happen often but it does.
 
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ImpSaint said:
Are you including all the student loans that don't get paid back by students in our government's investment?

And one would have to ask in that case, if Japan are getting so much more than us, where is all our money going? If we aren't getting as much as them despite borrowing while they get more but are paying debt off, what on earth has been going on in this country for the past 30 years?
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And here, you have finally asked the correct question. The real reason behind this protest vote, and the misdirected anger toward the EU

Unfortunately, the answer is that our countries services are run terribly. Too much red tape and management in every single government run organisation (from the army to the NHS).

These are the real systemic issues, and Brexit will not change this. If anything it will make it worse, in my opinion.

Brexit is nothing but a distraction from the real issues. If anything, it’s given those d!ck’s in Westminster a 2 year reprieve from doing anything that actually matters.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
And here, you have finally asked the correct question. The real reason behind this protest vote, and the misdirected anger toward the EU

Unfortunately, the answer is that our countries services are run terribly. Too much red tape and management in every single government run organisation (from the army to the NHS).

These are the real systemic issues, and Brexit will not change this. If anything it will make it worse, in my opinion.

Brexit is nothing but a distraction from the real issues. If anything, it’s given those d!ck’s in Westminster a 2 year reprieve from doing anything that actually matters.
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You are sounding more like the political class every day "And here, you have finally asked the correct question." Sounds very similar to "let's have another referendum so that you can give us the correct answer."
 
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ImpSaint said:
You are sounding more like the political class every day "And here, you have finally asked the correct question." Sounds very similar to "let's have another referendum so that you can give us the correct answer."
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The newly-independent MP Sarah Wollaston summed it up perfectly in the House a bit earlier. Referring to her earlier job as a surgeon, she pointed out that in order for a patient to give consent to a procedure, they had to know precisely what that procedure entails, along with possible outcomes and risks.

That is exactly where we are now in terms of Brexit. Whatever people were told in 2016 about outcomes and risks, we now have a much more detailed picture, including the government’s own economic forecast based on May’s Withdrawal Agreement. People deserve to have a chance to ratify the deal, reject it in favour of no deal, or reject Brexit altogether, informed by up to date forecasts.
 
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Government to the electorate: "You've voted once, narrowly supported one side and we must, absolutely must, respect your view. Suggesting that you might vote again with the knowledge of what leave actually entails is undemocratic"

Government to Parliament: "You've voted twice, rejecting the same offering by two of the three biggest majorities in Parliamentary history. You must have another say (and we may well ask for a fourth go). Suggesting that Parliament must not vote again on exactly the same motion is undemocratic"

Vin
 
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The Tories clearly not giving a single **** about the Parliament to which they want to return control.

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Vin
 

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What a contrast between our EPL elite who are on an upward curve and look ready to dominate Europe again, Messi withstanding, and our political elite who are out of the non-League category in terms of political talent. Sorry , I meant to say Sunday park football category We deserve the best PM, so like City and Liverpool have gone for the best coaches in the business., our political parties need to scour the world to get the best one. Jpe Kennedy for one!!!!
 
Is there a limit to how many times the same proposal can be voted on? Seems crazy there is another vote next week on the same proposal that was voted down this week and earlier this year.
 
MIsaints said:
Is there a limit to how many times the same proposal can be voted on? Seems crazy there is another vote next week on the same proposal that was voted down this week and earlier this year.
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In theory there is. A Labour MP earlier pointed out the number of times in history Speakers have prevented exactly the same motion being brought in more than once, let alone 3 or 4 times. If the government try and bring the same thing in next week as is rumoured, I await a procedural move to try and prevent it.
 
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