That exchange was Anna Soubry attacking Gove and the Tories over cuts to legal aid.....................a policy she voted for!!! Nothing to do with bullying. She has a recent history of railing against policies that she put her name to (if she actually remembers.)
The whole if we don't make anything we won t have any money is a common myth. UK has a mostly tertiary, or service based industry. Which actually makes more money in general than secondary, or manufacturing industry such as car manufactory for which it supports. And what manufacturing we do have is very specialised as that makes more than mass manufacturing. This is what makes us the top of the food chain as it were. Globalism allows us to export these services to countries like Japan to help run their manufacturing. Especially in terms of cars it's already very one sided. I don't think Japan imports many cars at all. They're a leader in that field and have specialist needs which their own companies cater for. This is why it is important to have a trade deal rather than 0 tarrifs so different industries are taken into account rather than blocking each other whenever there's an imbalance like that. We can cheaply import cars and electronics and such made in Japan and they can cheaply import pharmaceuticals and financial services from us which is far more efficient than is trying to protect both industries with tarrifs or having 0 tarrifs and losing control.
But I said above. Do you think that Europe's banks will still dominate in the future? Do you think the specialised manufacturing we have will still be viable in the future. Will the green argument render a lot of our "specialist" stuff redundant? Will China or somewhere else in the far East take banking away from the EU, after all that is what London did not so long ago. These things will develop too. We are looking at what we do now. How these things affect what is happening now but as we can see things are about to change massively, not just in terms of diesel>electric. I mean the emerging nations 20 years ago were something we talked about. We are now on the cusp of some of these emerging nations actually becoming the big boys. China in particular but also India. That was my point. Yes we have stuff to sell. in 7 years when the tariffs on the Japan deal reach zero it will benefit the EU (and us if we are still in there) IF we still have relevant product to sell. 20 years ago we could never have envisaged things changing as they are now. We would have thought that the same combustion car manufacturers would produce the cars of the future. That is not so certain now. "Made in china" fills our houses so maybe in 10 years we might be driving cars "made in china" that are still cheaper despite the 10% WTO because..........well because China is cheaper.
This is not an argument. It’s a list of grievances. I get it. You don’t like big corporations and government. Fine. How is leaving the EU going to fix this? Do you think that the likes of Johnson and Farage who pushed for Brexit, but then couldn’t get out fast after the vote are crusaders for justice? Or May, who made a power grab and since then has been jerking the entire country around to cling to her political post? Or Corbin? This is the disconnect. You have such a deep resentment and distrust of government, politicians, and business, but somehow you have full confidence in Brexit— an idea pushed onto the public by some of the biggest scoundrels there are. That’s how they snookered people. They got them all fired up about how bad things suck, and then trotted Brexit out there. What was Brexit supposed to solve? Nothing. They had no idea. That’s why they ****ed off the second it passed. Yes, it was a protest vote. You’ve given reasons for why you felt it necessary to protest. I have no doubt there is some merit to your argument and that others feel similarly. But how many people truly thought beyond their anger and asked if they were doing the right thing? How many people who were so eager to vote for “outside” candidates to blow up the system paused to think “Hey wait a minute... claiming to be an outsider and blaming all the insiders for problems is actually the oldest trick in the book.” It’s the most cynically manipulative inside move there is. It works so well, that those with half a lick of sense ran far away as fast as they could just when it seemed they had won. Why? Because they knew they were now insiders, they had no plan, and they were going to be screwed by someone playing the same trick on them they just used. Only May was greedy enough to go for it,and you see where that got her, and you. I’m not trying to argue that you all remain. I think you should, but whatever. There are some reasons to leave that I can recognize even if I disagree. But those reasons require a full plan, and next steps which no one had. See? Even if Brexit is indeed the right move, it’s not be done for the right reason, or any coherent reason and that means whatever grand vision you have for post-Brexit England will fail. This is not an argument over whether to leave or stay. It’s about the current state of the country. I’m just pointing out that the reason your country is in a mess is because no one really knew why they wanted a Brexit so bad. You’re like the dog that chased the car and caught it (because the car stopped). It’s like... ummm.... now what? Why was I even chasing this? You’re likely going to hard Brexit not out of principle, but because you painted yourself into a corner. That’s no way to run a country. Sorry man, but from where I’m sitting this looks a whole lot like “**** you, EU. You don’t get to screw us over. I only we get to screw ourselves over.” Good job. Really showed... someone I guess... who is the boss. Wait, who is the boss actually? Because I’m not seeing one. You can vote to stay, or remain, or wait to get booted out. It’s not going to solve your problem. You are already screwed. I say the same thing about the US. It doesn’t matter if Trump wins or loses in 2020. There is a deep divide in both of our countries that political games and votes will not solve.
Of course there's a need to change, adapt and evolve. Worthless argument to discuss or propose how or what? Not acceptable. Your replies have words lots, but no substance. Arguments or negotiations are presented with verifiable sources that can be checked, agreed or repudiated. I'll check back and see what you said about who you were having a dialogue with, certainly gave the impression we are lesser mortals on this thread.
After all, how often do you get to see a Prime Minister voting against her own government's motion? Now we need Parliament to keep its nerve. Vin
Do you think the average Tory supporter would vote for a “Johnny Foreigner” ? After two years of people trying to cut ties with Europe I can’t imagine those same people wanting to still be ruled by a European. I would love to see it just for the Daily Mail headlines it would create.
I wonder if any of their backers have thought about recruitiing an Aussie Conservative to take over from May? There are no language barriers, the right-wing media would be more than happy to endorse such a figure as many Conservatives in Oz share similar views as the centre and right wing UK Conservatives. Furthermore, he or she would be untainted by the stain of Brexit which taints the rest of them. Fresh start, simple messages from the start. For the UK Cons there is every advantage in pursuing such a course of action. What about it IMPS?
I don't want this to be seen as part of project fear but I'm advising friends and family in the UK to stock up on HP sauce. It's made in the Netherlands and may become scarce and expensive. Check the labels on other products to be sure of secure supplies. Jab
The leader of the Dutch Pirate Party Ancilla van de Leest could also be considered. The Pirate Party's core policies are to bring about reform to copyright and patent laws, support privacy, reduce surveillance from government and businesses, and support freedom of speech and freedom of expression. I'm sure her English is more than adequate. Ancilla van de Leest, born as Linde van de Leest is a Dutch politician, former fetish model, producer, presenter and activist.
Aw, mate, you're becoming a parody of yourself. Here's your view on forecasts: Compare with Forecasts that suggest the EU is dead good*, forecasts that predict economic damage from Brexit bad. George Orwell would be proud of you. You've achieved doublethink. (Though the conclusion above is more Animal Farm than 1984) Vin *As I know your tedious pedantry of old, I know you're presenting them as questions but we both know that's just a rhetorical device
No our production won't drop to 0. That doesn't happen even in ruined countries like Somalia. Little hard to argue this because you haven't provided alternatives or even any negatives or positives so I'll just give future predictions. Japan is at a very similar level of economic development to our own currently. Japan used to be colonised by China which is why they use Chinese script. China naturally should be on equal footing to us. They have fertile land and decent resources. They were at a high level of technical advancement having developed gunpowder etc before us. But they were very slow to adopt globalism. Japan however were very quick, had a revolution on the subject, And as such their economy quickly grew to the point they were able to invade China by ww2. After world war 2 Japan continued to be heavily intertwined with the West so has advanced to the point of being our equal. But China has also opened up more, albeit very carefully, after we sided with them during the war. Since they were stunted for a long time by refusing globalism, this means they are a long way behind where they should be and are catching up and will eventually take their place as an equal as the resources they have available means they should be. This is an inevitability no matter what we do. In the short term Japan has one of the highest debts in the world. And if you remember that article about Greece. The way you reduce debt is by increasing exports and reducing your buying power. So that is what Japan is currently doing and will do over the next decade. Past that it will continue to be a near identical country to our own. China is increasing its manufacturing so in the short to medium term this will give us small market for mass produced goods like cheap cars and a bigger market with more money to export our high end goods to which is why we are currently able to increase the services sector. Long term is more likely to be affected by resource shortages and technology so harder to predict. If they take over our finance industries we can slowly migrate back to manufacturing which will result in a lower per capita GDP and lower wages. But since that's what you seem to be suggesting anyway(?) I don't see you having an issue with that?
Not lesser mortals at all. I am not "pals" with these people. They post on platforms just like we do. I don't "call them up." I just post on articles and on occasion they might post in the same articles, reply to something I have posted, maybe I reply to something they posted. Not much different to here. Who knows, some on here might actually be well known figures. It is just discussion on a level playing field. No need for tickets, no need for silver spoons, no exclusive social circle. Joe Bloggs posts, loads of other Joe Bloggs post, well known historians post, journalists post, commentariat post. How do you think commentariat (not politicians or Spads) can know what "Joe Bloggs" really thinks" when their whole days is spent touring Westminster buildings and frequenting news channels, TV programmes etc? They frequent places where "Mr nobosy" posts their greviances and thus they see what Mr Remain Nobody and Mrs Leave Nobody is saying. There's no point listening to someone like Farage or Alistair Campbell saying "what people want" because they just say what they want and prefix it with "what the people want" but non affiliated commentariat* only know what normal people actually think because they are reading the various moods and opinions on the internet. *not "commentariat" like Owen Jones, Ash Sarkar, Isobel Oakshott etc because these commentariat are not people who discuss, they are people who merely tell others what they should think rather than asking. They aren't really interested in what people think, more they are trying to build a following that repeat what they say. These people above and many more like them are quite typical of the twitter model which is basically: Post up message, count the replies and followers. They are preachers, not debaters. They make statements not discussion points. So nothing to do with "lesser mortals." I live in a council house FFS. I don't have a "hotline to the stars." It's just that on occasion someone more well known than me might find something I type quite interesting, and like here that might be because they vehemently disagree with it or that they find it strikes a chord with what they hear elsewhere.
Ignoring that you need to be a British, Irish or commonwealth citizen to be an MP, I don't think a (non British) European is likely but then Ides is just on the wind up anyway.
Oh and just to add, while Japan has one of the highest debts in the world. It's going down and they still invest much more per person in education than our government and have far better public services and police force....
Can't see it but would have to see on merit. Can't see either of the 2 main parties being willing to accept a leader that is not an MP so that hurdle would need to be passed first.
Nope, not double think. You can't read. Forecasts do not show the EU will be dead. What they do show of course is that the EU will be a beacon of light forever, although they have revised a couple of years now when forced to. And I am not forecasting. I am asking a question. Forecasts of the past few years constantly predicted the EU would beat the UK for years to come. And they did for a couple of years by using 2.5trn printed money to achieve..................1trn in growth. That QE is ignored though with the growth figure being lauded. What happened the moment they stopped printing? So you think with or without a forecast the future is rosy for the EU? Do you dismiss that the UK did OK actually considering we stopped printing ages ago? I think we will forever be hard pushed to find any forecast that states the EU is dead because they just can't see anything other than continued dominance from this "superior" body, the EU that won the wars, kept the peace ever since (don't mention Yugoslavia or Crimea,) has made sure that there are jobs for all, young and old, everywhere in it's remit, and is happy to spread the love with it's fair and balanced currency. The graphs will show a blip for the next 2 years but after that it will sky rocket.... ....although that blip will continually be there while they forecast on hopes and just remodel the next couple of years each time the numbers come in. Because they are questions. If they were meant as statements I would post them and not reply, although replies aren't really worthwhile because so many have this rosy idealistic blind vision of the benefits of being in this club, despite it being merely an legal instrument to spend their money at their best mate's shops.
