Off Topic Politics Thread

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It's Only A Game said:
If the Labour Party cannot define what a woman is, then how can they create policies around for example, violence against women, discrimination and equality. You cannot make policies for what you can't define.
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I agree it is so important to use clear language so if Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour party stutter and cannot define what a woman is then how can they make or defend a policy or defend the rights of women?

Look at what happened when discussing abortion access and the law-

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Only women become pregnant and can have abortions but because this Democrat insisted on using 'inclusive' language it becomes the discussion point rather than her views on abortion and the law.

While there is a suggestion that all this is 'bullshit', can I just mention Penny Morduant's campaign to become leader of the Tories.

When Morduant was Minister for Women and Equalities she tried to push through the Ministerial and Maternity Allowance Bill using the dreadful phrase 'pregnant persons' There was a campaign from grassroots women's groups to have the wording amended to 'women' because as we all know, only women get pregnant. The wording was amended when the bill reached the House of Lords, thanks to the efforts of Baroness Nicholson and others.

So when Mordaunt declared her intention to stand as Tory leader, she quickly realised that women had not forgotten her attempts to use the term 'pregnant persons' as 'AnybutPenny' became a trending topic on social media..

In the past couple of days, AnybutPenny has now become PinocchioPenny as it seems she may be telling quite a few porkies during interviews in an effort to back-peddle and win over the Conservative Women. It is clear they see Mordaunt as willing to undermine science, established language, clarity of thought, and women's rights

For those on 'team bullshit'' here's a link to Titania

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/may-2022/dont-trust-the-myths-of-biology/
 
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Bob's mate said:
I agree it is so important to use clear language so if Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour party stutter and cannot define what a woman is then how can they make or defend a policy or defend the rights of women?

Look at what happened when discussing abortion access and the law-

You must log in or register to see media



Only women become pregnant and can have abortions but because this Democrat insisted on using 'inclusive' language it becomes the discussion point rather than her views on abortion and the law.

While there is a suggestion that all this is 'bullshit', can I just mention Penny Morduant's campaign to become leader of the Tories.

When Morduant was Minister for Women and Equalities she tried to push through the Ministerial and Maternity Allowance Bill using the dreadful phrase 'pregnant persons' There was a campaign from grassroots women's groups to have the wording amended to 'women' because as we all know, only women get pregnant. The wording was amended when the bill reached the House of Lords, thanks to the efforts of Baroness Nicholson and others.

So when Mordaunt declared her intention to stand as Tory leader, she quickly realised that women had not forgotten her attempts to use the term 'pregnant persons' as 'AnybutPenny' became a trending topic on social media..

In the past couple of days, AnybutPenny has now become PinocchioPenny as it seems she may be telling quite a few porkies during interviews in an effort to back-peddle and win over the Conservative Women. It is clear they see Mordaunt as willing to undermine science, established language, clarity of thought, and women's rights

For those on 'team bullshit'' here's a link to Titania

https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/may-2022/dont-trust-the-myths-of-biology/
Click to expand...


I think the majority of the British public have enough to worry about with galloping inflation, a tanking economy, and huge public and private debt. Good luck trying to distract them into obsessing about transsexuals; I think your obvious diversion tactics are destined to fail tbh.
 
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Bob's mate said:
I agree it is so important to use clear language so if Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour party stutter and cannot define what a woman is then how can they make or defend a policy ordefend the rights of women?...

...There was a campaign from grassroots women's groups...
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They're having difficulty discussing a very new, nuanced subject full of potential pitfalls, a subject where language matters greatly to a group of people who have been marginalised and, to some extent, mistreated.

Is it genuinely your position that having some (IMO) pretty understandable difficulty on that subject warrants not accepting their comments on, say, the cost of living, the state of public services or the NHS?



On the second point, I've looked for news on the grassroots campaign but I can't see it. Could you link to your source, please?

Vin
 
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saintrichie123 said:
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I have a funny suspicion that Liz Truss will actually end up getting elected simply because she will be seen as the anti-Rishi ticket. Memories of Maggie among the Tory faithful will also be too tempting for them to resist. Personally, I think she is probably the most dangerous of all the candidates but I would not mind betting on how long she would last in power before she faces the dreaded vote of non-confidence. Of those who remain in the contest, I think the "safest" options are Tugendhat and Mordaunt. Liz Truss will just be like having Boris Johnson in a skirt and is similarly not up to the job for the same reasons. I cannot see Truss lasting 6-12 months. The comparisons with Margaret Thatcher are too obvious and this is the wrong route of travel for the Conservatives who probably need to align themselves more akin to the coalition under Cameron before people are too fed up with them.

It is an awkward situation for the government. No one is happy with their policies and most people can appreciate how flawed they have been. However, a clean break from the recent incumbent would be tantamount to admiting that the last regime was a failure. I don't think an opposition leader has ever been presented with such an open goal for a long while in British politics and I can't see Keir Starmer messing it up. He has had two excellent PMQs where he has destroyed the Consevatives anfd the questions be forwarded today are indicative of just how awkward things will be for the next Prime Minister. It is like a game of chess where there is marginal room to move so save the king for a while but where checkmate is somewhat inevitable.

I think the challenges are too great for whoever comes in. People want a change and I am not convinced anyone wants the choices being forced on us.
 
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Bob's mate said:
I agree it is so important to use clear language so if Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour party stutter and cannot define what a woman is then how can they make or defend a policy or defend the rights of women?

Look at what happened when discussing abortion access and the law-

You must log in or register to see media



Only women become pregnant and can have abortions but because this Democrat insisted on using 'inclusive' language it becomes the discussion point rather than her views on abortion and the law.

While there is a suggestion that all this is 'bullshit', can I just mention Penny Morduant's campaign to become leader of the Tories.

When Morduant was Minister for Women and Equalities she tried to push through the Ministerial and Maternity Allowance Bill using the dreadful phrase 'pregnant persons' There was a campaign from grassroots women's groups to have the wording amended to 'women' because as we all know, only women get pregnant. The wording was amended when the bill reached the House of Lords, thanks to the efforts of Baroness Nicholson and others.

So when Mordaunt declared her intention to stand as Tory leader, she quickly realised that women had not forgotten her attempts to use the term 'pregnant persons' as 'AnybutPenny' became a trending topic on social media..



https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/may-2022/dont-trust-the-myths-of-biology/
Click to expand...

I can agree with this to a degree and I sometimes wonder just much priortiy the Trans issue is for most voters. I am not a fan of prejudices being inflicted on people yet you wonder just how any people this actually affects.

It will be quite fascinatig to see where science takes this debate. Similar issues around classification and evolution existed before the 1990s when research into DNA led to important discoveries which questioned how science identified plants and animals. I do not doubt that something similar is possible with gender identification whilst, at the same time, would have to argue that this is pretty niche stuff albiet Vin has hit the nail firmly on the head.

As Archer said, most people are concerned about issues such as inflation, cost of living crisis, etc. Lets not forget that these issues are also ones for Trans people and that the opposition should concentrate on those issues which unite people against this government. i don't see Trans rights / gender identity as top of the agenda at the moment , especially when the economy is in such a poor position, the environment is endangered and there is a potential for nuclear war. There are far bigger fish to fry which concern everyone.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
I have a funny suspicion that Liz Truss will actually end up getting elected simply because she will be seen as the anti-Rishi ticket. Memories of Maggie among the Tory faithful will also be too tempting for them to resist. Personally, I think she is probably the most dangerous of all the candidates but I would not mind betting on how long she would last in power before she faces the dreaded vote of non-confidence. Of those who remain in the contest, I think the "safest" options are Tugendhat and Mordaunt. Liz Truss will just be like having Boris Johnson in a skirt and is similarly not up to the job for the same reasons. I cannot see Truss lasting 6-12 months. The comparisons with Margaret Thatcher are too obvious and this is the wrong route of travel for the Conservatives who probably need to align themselves more akin to the coalition under Cameron before people are too fed up with them.

It is an awkward situation for the government. No one is happy with their policies and most people can appreciate how flawed they have been. However, a clean break from the recent incumbent would be tantamount to admiting that the last regime was a failure. I don't think an opposition leader has ever been presented with such an open goal for a long while in British politics and I can't see Keir Starmer messing it up. He has had two excellent PMQs where he has destroyed the Consevatives anfd the questions be forwarded today are indicative of just how awkward things will be for the next Prime Minister. It is like a game of chess where there is marginal room to move so save the king for a while but where checkmate is somewhat inevitable.

I think the challenges are too great for whoever comes in. People want a change and I am not convinced anyone wants the choices being forced on us.
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Where are the comparisons to thatcher other than being a woman? Thatcher read her briefs and was competent - whether you like her or not. She knew what was going on but just had an interpretation of it that was very controversial to a lot of people

Also I don’t recall ever seeing stories of largesse with public finances on fancy events and the like. But perhaps because I am not old enough and there are bigger things to criticise her for?
 
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Gregm1988 said:
Where are the comparisons to thatcher other than being a woman? Thatcher read her briefs and was competent - whether you like her or not. She knew what was going on but just had an interpretation of it that was very controversial to a lot of people

Also I don’t recall ever seeing stories of largesse with public finances on fancy events and the like. But perhaps because I am not old enough and there are bigger things to criticise her for?
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Thinking more along the lines of Truss being an admirer of the "Iron Lady."
 
Ian Thumwood said:
Thinking more along the lines of Truss being an admirer of the "Iron Lady."
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But isn’t that kind of the law for a female Tory MP. Don’t they all try to channel that to an extent? And I expect they are all admirers - at least the record will say that …
 
Gregm1988 said:
Where are the comparisons to thatcher other than being a woman? Thatcher read her briefs and was competent - whether you like her or not. She knew what was going on but just had an interpretation of it that was very controversial to a lot of people

Also I don’t recall ever seeing stories of largesse with public finances on fancy events and the like. But perhaps because I am not old enough and there are bigger things to criticise her for?
Click to expand...


Liz Truss likes being photographed in tanks. So there’s that.
 
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This thread on Twitter is one of the most fascinating threads I think I've ever found. It shows the polled attitudes of voters, members and MPs for the two main parties. I've honestly been looking at these eight tweets for the best part of an hour pondering the implications.

Just a warning, you'll need to look at the graphs for a little while before it becomes clear what they are doing. There's a great deal of information encapsulated in them but I promise it's worth the time and effort. Once you can read them they are staggeringly informative. They explain so much about British politics.

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Vin
 
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Onionman said:
This thread on Twitter is one of the most fascinating threads I think I've ever found. It shows the polled attitudes of voters, members and MPs for the two main parties. I've honestly been looking at these eight tweets for the best part of an hour pondering the implications.

Just a warning, you'll need to look at the graphs for a little while before it becomes clear what they are doing. There's a great deal of information encapsulated in them but I promise it's worth the time and effort. Once you can read them they are staggeringly informative. They explain so much about British politics.

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Vin
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Thanks Vin I'll give it a good read later.
 
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