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Off Topic Politics Thread

Discussion in 'Southampton' started by ChilcoSaint, Feb 23, 2016.

  1. Bob's mate

    Bob's mate Member

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    I agree it is so important to use clear language so if Sir Keir Starmer and the Labour party stutter and cannot define what a woman is then how can they make or defend a policy or defend the rights of women?

    Look at what happened when discussing abortion access and the law-





    Only women become pregnant and can have abortions but because this Democrat insisted on using 'inclusive' language it becomes the discussion point rather than her views on abortion and the law.

    While there is a suggestion that all this is 'bullshit', can I just mention Penny Morduant's campaign to become leader of the Tories.

    When Morduant was Minister for Women and Equalities she tried to push through the Ministerial and Maternity Allowance Bill using the dreadful phrase 'pregnant persons' There was a campaign from grassroots women's groups to have the wording amended to 'women' because as we all know, only women get pregnant. The wording was amended when the bill reached the House of Lords, thanks to the efforts of Baroness Nicholson and others.

    So when Mordaunt declared her intention to stand as Tory leader, she quickly realised that women had not forgotten her attempts to use the term 'pregnant persons' as 'AnybutPenny' became a trending topic on social media..

    In the past couple of days, AnybutPenny has now become PinocchioPenny as it seems she may be telling quite a few porkies during interviews in an effort to back-peddle and win over the Conservative Women. It is clear they see Mordaunt as willing to undermine science, established language, clarity of thought, and women's rights

    For those on 'team bullshit'' here's a link to Titania

    https://thecritic.co.uk/issues/may-2022/dont-trust-the-myths-of-biology/
     
    #35081
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  2. Lemons and Oranges

    Lemons and Oranges Well-Known Member

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    #35082
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  3. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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  4. ChilcoSaint

    ChilcoSaint What a disgrace
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  5. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    I think the majority of the British public have enough to worry about with galloping inflation, a tanking economy, and huge public and private debt. Good luck trying to distract them into obsessing about transsexuals; I think your obvious diversion tactics are destined to fail tbh.
     
    #35085
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  6. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    Spanish government doing a bit more to help with costs.

    upload_2022-7-13_16-58-27.png
     
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  7. saintrichie123

    saintrichie123 Well-Known Member

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  8. San Tejón

    San Tejón Well-Known Member

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    #35088
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  9. Onionman

    Onionman Well-Known Member

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    They're having difficulty discussing a very new, nuanced subject full of potential pitfalls, a subject where language matters greatly to a group of people who have been marginalised and, to some extent, mistreated.

    Is it genuinely your position that having some (IMO) pretty understandable difficulty on that subject warrants not accepting their comments on, say, the cost of living, the state of public services or the NHS?



    On the second point, I've looked for news on the grassroots campaign but I can't see it. Could you link to your source, please?

    Vin
     
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    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
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  10. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    I have a funny suspicion that Liz Truss will actually end up getting elected simply because she will be seen as the anti-Rishi ticket. Memories of Maggie among the Tory faithful will also be too tempting for them to resist. Personally, I think she is probably the most dangerous of all the candidates but I would not mind betting on how long she would last in power before she faces the dreaded vote of non-confidence. Of those who remain in the contest, I think the "safest" options are Tugendhat and Mordaunt. Liz Truss will just be like having Boris Johnson in a skirt and is similarly not up to the job for the same reasons. I cannot see Truss lasting 6-12 months. The comparisons with Margaret Thatcher are too obvious and this is the wrong route of travel for the Conservatives who probably need to align themselves more akin to the coalition under Cameron before people are too fed up with them.

    It is an awkward situation for the government. No one is happy with their policies and most people can appreciate how flawed they have been. However, a clean break from the recent incumbent would be tantamount to admiting that the last regime was a failure. I don't think an opposition leader has ever been presented with such an open goal for a long while in British politics and I can't see Keir Starmer messing it up. He has had two excellent PMQs where he has destroyed the Consevatives anfd the questions be forwarded today are indicative of just how awkward things will be for the next Prime Minister. It is like a game of chess where there is marginal room to move so save the king for a while but where checkmate is somewhat inevitable.

    I think the challenges are too great for whoever comes in. People want a change and I am not convinced anyone wants the choices being forced on us.
     
    #35090
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  11. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with this to a degree and I sometimes wonder just much priortiy the Trans issue is for most voters. I am not a fan of prejudices being inflicted on people yet you wonder just how any people this actually affects.

    It will be quite fascinatig to see where science takes this debate. Similar issues around classification and evolution existed before the 1990s when research into DNA led to important discoveries which questioned how science identified plants and animals. I do not doubt that something similar is possible with gender identification whilst, at the same time, would have to argue that this is pretty niche stuff albiet Vin has hit the nail firmly on the head.

    As Archer said, most people are concerned about issues such as inflation, cost of living crisis, etc. Lets not forget that these issues are also ones for Trans people and that the opposition should concentrate on those issues which unite people against this government. i don't see Trans rights / gender identity as top of the agenda at the moment , especially when the economy is in such a poor position, the environment is endangered and there is a potential for nuclear war. There are far bigger fish to fry which concern everyone.
     
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  12. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    Where are the comparisons to thatcher other than being a woman? Thatcher read her briefs and was competent - whether you like her or not. She knew what was going on but just had an interpretation of it that was very controversial to a lot of people

    Also I don’t recall ever seeing stories of largesse with public finances on fancy events and the like. But perhaps because I am not old enough and there are bigger things to criticise her for?
     
    #35092
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  13. Ian Thumwood

    Ian Thumwood Well-Known Member

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    Thinking more along the lines of Truss being an admirer of the "Iron Lady."
     
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  14. Gregm1988

    Gregm1988 Well-Known Member

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    But isn’t that kind of the law for a female Tory MP. Don’t they all try to channel that to an extent? And I expect they are all admirers - at least the record will say that …
     
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  15. Archers Road

    Archers Road Urban Spaceman

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    Liz Truss likes being photographed in tanks. So there’s that.
     
    #35095
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  16. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Yes she's a right old tanker for sure.
     
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  17. Le Tissier's Laces

    Le Tissier's Laces Well-Known Member

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    Slightly odd way of listing those results - I always thought 37 was more than 32, but then they don't want Tugenhadt to get this (because he'd probably be quite good). Shame that Hunt is now backing Rishi and not TT.
     
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  18. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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  19. Onionman

    Onionman Well-Known Member

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    This thread on Twitter is one of the most fascinating threads I think I've ever found. It shows the polled attitudes of voters, members and MPs for the two main parties. I've honestly been looking at these eight tweets for the best part of an hour pondering the implications.

    Just a warning, you'll need to look at the graphs for a little while before it becomes clear what they are doing. There's a great deal of information encapsulated in them but I promise it's worth the time and effort. Once you can read them they are staggeringly informative. They explain so much about British politics.



    Vin
     
    #35099
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  20. StJabbo1

    StJabbo1 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Vin I'll give it a good read later.
     
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