Off Topic NHS pay rise

[polyphemus]

Can you explain why for instance those two bastions of socialism Switzerland and Germany spend a higher proportion of GDP on health spend ie higher per capita than the UK. Or do you just accept the Tory fake news that the funding of the NHS is right...perhaps it just needs another reorganisation or more privatisation ?

We need more hospitals and more staff and they should be rewarded fairly.

I don't know enough about either the German or Swiss Economies to explain their internal spending in any sort of accurate detail.
Nor do I have even the vaguest knowledge of how either country structures its Public Health Finace support.
Nor do I see how this is relavent to this particular debate.

I do believe though that both countries have 'strong economies' (pre covid), and as such their Goverments 'income per person' is likely to be higher than that of The UK Government's income per person.
I am fairly sure though that both of the Countries you mention spend much less on their respective Militart that The UK does.
No doubt there are other examples too.

I should though emasise that I agree that the NHS Staff deserve more.
But I simply ask where the money comes from because I am ALSO sympathetic towards those poor souls who have been hit very hard, financialy, by Covid.

 

[Sunderpitt]

I don't know enough about either the German or Swiss Economies to explain their internal spending in any sort of accurate detail.
Nor do I have even the vaguest knowledge of how either country structures its Public Health Finace support.
Nor do I see how this is relavent to this particular debate.

I do believe though that both countries have 'strong economies' (pre covid), and as such their Goverments 'income per person' is likely to be higher than that of The UK Government's income per person.
I am fairly sure though that both of the Countries you mention spend much less on their respective Militart that The UK does.
No doubt there are other examples too.

I should though emasise that I agree that the NHS Staff deserve more.
But I simply ask where the money comes from because I am ALSO sympathetic towards those poor souls who have been hit very hard, financialy, by Covid.

Some may say the answer is progressive taxation and redistribution of wealth and spending. It could be argued we cannot afford not to more hospitals and staff fairly rewarded.

 

[The Exile II]

Any discussion of the NHS is a nightmare.

Do I think the individual workers should be paid more? Yes.

However, in terms of overall funding it seems to be a bottomless pit that's always furiously resistant to any kind of outside scrutiny or change. It suits both political sides for it to be in the state it's in, because it's easy points scored when in opposition.

I'd fix it by having the entirety of government involvement being signing a cheque. The NHS are then entirely responsible for how the service runs, rather than the system we currently have whereby nobody is ever conclusively to blame for anything.

 

[master-simpson]

12.5% is an outrageous demand mind.

My pay increase is automatic, as long as I’m doing my job right it’s around 4% a year.

I think that’s about right industry and sector wide.

I can only dream of 4% - your very very lucky!!
My pay rises over the last 9 years (ie in my current job) have been between 1 & 2.5%. The only reason we got a pay rise last year was because a 2 year deal (which was ****e anyway) had been agreed the year before. Even then the company weren’t going to pay it. It took 4 months and threatened legal action for them eventually cave in.
Now do you think we’ll get a pay rise this year or next - i won’t hold my breath!!
Somebody said NHS pay has been eroded over the last decade - we’ll I have some news - they’re not alone!!! At least they’ve had very good deals in recent years!!

I stand by my thoughts that in today’s financial climate, 1% is ok compared to many others on less money. Maybe to doctors & surgeons could foresake their pay awards and give them to nurses!! BUT that’ll never happen.

Bart

 

[polyphemus]

Some may say the answer is progressive taxation and redistribution of wealth and spending. It could be argued we cannot afford not to more hospitals and staff fairly rewarded.

You are into 'can of worms country' with that one.

Economists have been debating for hundreds of years just how to evaluate fair rewards for work done.
Nurse v Police Officer v Serviceman v Prison Officer v Civil/Locan Government Officer. These are all state employees.

It gets even more complited in the Private Sector and you have to throw in the Unions wanting to keep 'differentials'.
Karl Marx' with his 'from each according to his ability and to each according to his needs' had the rights of it, much like the Sermon on The Mount, but thats been tried and People, being People, just wont accept it.

 

[D-K]

We could also start by taking the proper taxes off companies like Amazon, imagine what that would do for the government and economy! We've been a soft touch and looked after the uber rich for far too long. Time to change and start getting our house in order and if companies don't like it then bugger off. I can guarantee the Amazon's of the world wouldn't stop selling in the UK if we made them pay the correct taxes because they will make more money in UK than a whole lot of other countries, and it's not like they're the only shop (online or not) to sell products.

 

[safcfansofaraway]

12.5% is an outrageous demand mind.

My pay increase is automatic, as long as I’m doing my job right it’s around 4% a year.

I think that’s about right industry and sector wide.

Your very lucky, I guess you work in the energy or telecoms sector or similar, my business bills go up every year for all the essential services we are required to have which in the current climate my income goes down by a similar amount each year in my small business world, me and many more.

 

[The Norton Cat]

yes they are different in terms of population, GDP but it’s an example of how a democratic socialist government with the welfare of its citizens at heart first and foremost were much better at dealing with the pandemic by pursuing a Zero Covid policy from the start

Geographically, they are very different and that's the key thing. Much easier to lock people out of NZ than out of a country that is a key transport hub for the Northern hemisphere

 

[Montysoptician]

After witnessing first hand the workload that my MP Bridget Phillipson gets through and the **** she takes for doing so, then I have to say she deserver every penny she gets.

I have often argued that MP's should have their salary doubled to attract the best and then lobbying, ex gratia payments and expenses, with the exception of mileage, banned and criminalised.

It would go a long way to stop the corruption evident on both sides of parliament.

 

[Nads]

Your very lucky, I guess you work in the energy or telecoms sector or similar, my business bills go up every year for all the essential services we are required to have which in the current climate my income goes down by a similar amount each year in my small business world, me and many more.

Yeah, loosely telecoms but that area. Thing is with our game we are part of RPI which means we are basically bound to increase prices year on year, and that why my pay is always kind of protected.

How the 6% corporate hit is going to affect that will be seen soon enough.

To be fair, companies are given a ‘this to that’ order for increase for example ‘you need to increase prices by between 2 and 10%’, some take the piss, we always do the minimum.

How profitable a company is has a massive bearing of course, and you don’t have that marker in the public sector and I get that, but if like yourself and Bart there are saying you are getting 1%, in real terms that’s a pay cut.

I’m sure most companies won’t hike prices by 6%, but they will cut jobs or costs elsewhere to cover it. The knock on of 6% on business could be really ugly and short sighted.

It’s like Corbyn saying ‘free BB for all’. Lovely idea aye? But then what happens to the literally hundreds of thousands of well paid workers who’s company is now not profitable?

They just never seem to be able to get the balance right, everything is for ‘now’ and that simply doesn’t work.

Don’t get me wrong I don’t have the answer either, but NHS pay increase has been short of inflation for a period of time as I understand, then they spunk £20billion to a pals company for an app that doesn’t work, after Apple and Google offered them a working one for free.

They just never get it right, and they don’t give a ****. That Hancock fella is utterly vile, Piers Morgan has shown him for why he is and tied him in knots time and time again, but he doesn’t give a ****.

 

[MrRAWhite]

I have often argued that MP's should have their salary doubled to attract the best and then lobbying, ex gratia payments and expenses, with the exception of mileage, banned and criminalised.

It would go a long way to stop the corruption evident on both sides of parliament.

There has been no corruption worse than the distribution of the contracts during this covid crisis. If it had it been a Labour government, the media would be relentless in bringing it to the attention of the people.

 

[Somebodys pinched my sombrero]

There has been no corruption worse than the distribution of the contracts during this covid crisis. If it had it been a Labour government, the media would be relentless in bringing it to the attention of the people.

There’s been an awful lot of money absolutely wasted.

 

[Montysoptician]

There has been no corruption worse than the distribution of the contracts during this covid crisis. If it had it been a Labour government, the media would be relentless in bringing it to the attention of the people.

Spot on MrRAW

 

[Disco down under]

Genuine oblivious question. Has the economy grown this year?

 

[Nordic]

Genuine oblivious question. Has the economy grown this year?

Not yet. Q1 expected to be flat, but March /lockdown easing etc should spur some actual q/q growth for the UK

 

[Disco down under]

Not yet. Q1 expected to be flat, but March /lockdown easing etc should spur some actual q/q growth for the UK

Sorry mate. I worded that stupidly. I meant over the last 12 months?

 

[Nig]

The 12.5% is a crazy number!! There is no way they could afford that without increasing income tax by a large amount!! Seems the people asking for these things don’t seem to take into account where the money us coming from!! Unrealistic completely! Not sure I’d agree about nurses being well paid. Some are but most aren’t IMO.

Aim high and take what you can

 

[Saf]

Something to mull over... 12.5% is just utter madness but it is a negotiation and I think that they know that it's an absurd request.

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[Saf]

Ahhh the old anti-semitism chestnut......the antisemitism that ran rife through the Labour Party when JC was leader.......the antisemitism of 0.06% of a 570,000 membership that now seems to have miraculously disappeared because it’s never mentioned in the media now

Disappeared?

Go on Labour social media pages and if you don't follow the crowd you are labelled as an Israeli bot paid for by zionists. Disappeared my arse.

Don't forget still the only party to be investigated and charged with racism. Sounds like you are still in denial tbh

 

[Wayne the Punk]

I work in the prison service, Covid all over the prison, never had one day off other than leave entitlement. I wonder if MPs get a pay rise this year?