LEAVE OR REMAIN

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LEAVE OR REMAIN

  • LEAVE

    Votes: 33 30.3%

  • REMAIN

    Votes: 76 69.7%
  • Total voters
    109
  • Poll closed .
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ImpSaint said:
Its called democracy. The fact that you think people are misinformed is part of the problem. People don't need to be informed of anything when they have personally experienced being turfed out of their jobs and then had to listen to politicians say it is all about immigrants when it isn't, it is about immigration.
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Don't kid yourself. It's about immigrants. If a bunch of working class British factory workers lost their jobs to a bunch of other factory workers from another part of the country, this vote wouldn't be happening.
 
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ImpSaint said:
Leaving might be the lesser of 2 evils. Do you want UKIP in power? So many people have misjudged the mood of the lower paid working class. Surely you are realising now that they weren't just bothered about foreigners.
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Economic downturns tend to provide fuel for the extreme poles of the political spectrum though, particularly the right. And as there's a good chance that i) exiting would seriously damage the Tories, and ii) it's going to reeeeeally hurt for a couple years, minimum, it's likely to be quite a boon for UKIP.
 
Schad said:
Economic downturns tend to provide fuel for the extreme poles of the political spectrum though, particularly the right. And as there's a good chance that i) exiting would seriously damage the Tories, and ii) it's going to reeeeeally hurt for a couple years, minimum, it's likely to be quite a boon for UKIP.
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Good points but if we did leave UKIP's USP is gone, which would inevitably have an impact on their vote. They couldn't talk about the EU so much and their other policies would need to attract the voters. I'm not sure they're going to be able to do that.
 
Puck said:
Good points but if we did Leave UKIP's USP is gone, which would inevitably have an impact on their vote. They couldn't talk about the EU so much and their other policies would need to attract the voters. I'm not sure they're going to be able to do that.
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But with the UK having greater control over the things UKIP really cares about, namely immigration policy, it'll further squeeze the center-right...they could hand-wave away certain things as being impossible before. They'd now be very possible, and if the UK economy takes a dive, there'll be quite an appetite for extreme ideas.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Don't kid yourself. It's about immigrants. If a bunch of working class British factory workers lost their jobs to a bunch of other factory workers from another part of the country, this vote wouldn't be happening.
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And how do you fathom that. British workers from another part of the country would cost the same as British workers from this part of the country. They would not put up with agencies working the way they are and charging silly rent to share a small room and they would not accept silly price transport deductions.

This is people who have families and homes and jobs that need the 40 hours that have been replaced by people that are living in agency houses using agency transport.
 
Puck said:
Good points but if we did leave UKIP's USP is gone, which would inevitably have an impact on their vote. They couldn't talk about the EU so much and their other policies would need to attract the voters. I'm not sure they're going to be able to do that.
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They wouldn't be able to that. They would be stuck with a ceiling of maximum 4m if we leave.
 
Bookies now have Leave as favourite.

While it's too early to predict a result, when the Remain campaign started trying to scare people into voting for them and then put Churchill on their posters I was reminded of one of his other quotes and suspected their plan might backfire.

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ImpSaint said:
And how do you fathom that. British workers from another part of the country would cost the same as British workers from this part of the country. They would not put up with agencies working the way they are and charging silly rent to share a small room and they would not accept silly price transport deductions.
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And that's why they don't have jobs. Not because of immigration. Because they aren't willing to live a certain way. Not that I'd want to do it, either.

But still... at some point if you demand a certain price for your services while someone else is willing to do it for less... why should you expect to get hired? And why should you be resentful that someone else is willing to accept conditions that you won't?

You are demanding certain things as a citizen. I'm not criticizing you for wanting those things. I think that countries do have some obligation to make sure their citizens are taken care of first. I wouldn't call that xenophobic. I cannot stand it when people of one party start blaming the other party for wanting "entitlements." The whole point of a country is to make sure that their citizens have certain rights. What is a "right" vs an "entitlement" is in the eye of the beholder.

But I also wouldn't pretend that an argument of that nature are somehow not about (in my case) Americans vs foreigners either. It totally is.
 
You only have to listen to the BBC commentary and the politicians. They are still blind or purposefully ignoring the facts.

They are warbling on about this referendum being offered just to appease Tory back benchers when the reality is and always has been that it is Labour voters that are switching in droves and that this is not just a Tory worry. The whole establishment media and politicians have totally misjudged this still thinking we are in the 70s and banging on about left and right this and that. They just do not understand.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
And that's why they don't have jobs. Not because of immigration. Because they aren't willing to live a certain way. Not that I'd want to do it, either.

But still... at some point if you demand a certain price for your services while someone else is willing to do it for less... why should you expect to get hired?

You are demanding certain things as a citizen. I'm not criticizing you for wanting those things. I think that countries do have some obligation to make sure their citizens are taken care of first. I wouldn't call that xenophobic. But I also wouldn't pretend (in my case) that it's somehow not about Americans vs foreigners either.
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Low paid workers didn't ask for the NMW to be invented. It has been a nightmare for us. When it came in we were above it. If you worked out our hourly rate back then and added the bank of England's inflation calculator we would be over £1.50 per hour above the NMW however the employers are now paying NMW for everything.

We aren't demanding a certain price. We will still work for minimum wage but do you really expect dad's, Mum's to pay for their rent and then have to pay another rent where they work to share rooms away from their families? on NMW? in their own country? 2 rents in the UK on NMW?
 
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