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Steven Toast said:
This year, as part of the government’s curriculum, I taught primary school children about periods (boys and girls). I also had to show them drawings of reproductive organs, discuss the changes one goes through in puberty and what those changes can look and feel like.

At no point were there any complaints, there were no parents kicking off, no children crying.

Now, a drag artist doing a performance based around periods probably isn’t the best medium to deliver such information, it certainly wouldn’t be my first choice.
That being said, at a show that celebrates freedom of sexuality, it is the responsibility of the parents to ensure they know what they are taking their children to. The performer has their act. If I took my little girl to a comedy festival and Frankie Boyle was performing, I wouldn’t expect him to spot my little one and change his act. It’s on me and if I think it’s inappropriate, I won’t take them. So either the parents deemed it fine, or they didn’t look up who was performing.

The angle of the film in question is pointing at the stage, but if you look at the photos from that pride, there are hundreds of people watching behind the camera. That’s who they are performing to, not four children. Now answer this. Why is somebody framing it like that isn’t the case, and do you think maybe somebody is trying to make a point? Because drag artists are coming under a lot of undue scrutiny in America and we just tend to copy them.
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I'm aware this type of Education exists Steven.I'm not sure it's enshrined in law or mandatory though?Isn't it down to the individual school boards to decide which parts of the curriculum they choose to promote?

The Curriculum in Scotland may differ slightly(there's a surprise) but my understanding is it's fairly similar.For example,2 of my grandchildren of similar age,are at different Primary Schools.One,5 years old,has recently been taught the words 'penis' and 'vagina',much to her Fathers disapproval.The previous Education Secretary for Scotland,(John Swinney),faced a furious backlash when the Curriculum was unveiled in Scotland and there were some choice words exchanged between himself and 'parents forum Scotland ' at a public meeting in Perth.

The point I'm trying to make here is that I know(as fact) that there is some resistance to this by some parents.

Vague Government guidelines can,and have been,misconstrued in the past and reference can be sought in that matter by googling a case in which Naomi and Matthew Seymour from Warwick withdrew their children from School after children (as young as 6) were given lessons in self touching and stimulation...

I do agree with you on the matter of taking kids to events that may be a bit 'edgy',simple parental skills would ensure a repeat of the highlighted incident wouldn't be repeated? Whether or not it's been staged or framed in a particular way is debatable though...Social media has reached its Zenith and people are posting anything and everything on their facebook,twitter,Instagram pages and I suspect this video has been plucked from such a site.
 
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Steven Toast said:
It isn’t a pronoun. It’s a Latin prefix, I don’t see it as awful but I’ll respect your feelings about it and not use it.

I know recently opinions have shifted on it because Elon Musk declared it a slur (shame nobody who matters gives a flying **** what he thinks) and it has begun to be seen as divisive within the community, because it suggests that LGB people don’t struggle with gender identity, which is of course untrue. However, it is still widely used in academia and the scientific community because it stands in contrast to the prefix trans-, which means “the other side”, which I can see as divisive but also kind of ironic when said by certain people I know on social media, given their views on trans people.
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The main reason I have a problem with “cis” is nothing to do with Musk. It’s due to the fundamental shift from defining sexuality as sex based attraction to gender based attraction (see stonewall list of definitions). I understand that gender is considered as an innate, personal feeling and expression of ones’s masculinity or femininity based in cultural expectations. And transwomen and transmen feel their gender is incongruent with their biological sex. Cis is thus used to describe “not trans”. However, I don’t feel a sense of gender. I’ve considered it and searched, and can’t find it. I just am who I am and I don’t care about whether I conform or not to stereotypes. So I object to being labelled cis on the basis it assumes I have an innate sense of gender. Ironically, some organisations would consider me agender and thus queer.
 
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SydneyTiger14 said:
Yes.



There's a reason I'm not answering your question.
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I don't have a problem with that and if I've touched on something that may have hurt you,I apologise unreservedly.

Let's draw a line under that and leave as is.

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I do however have one or two reservations of my own about replying to any questions you put to me in future.

I feel that in some of your answers/critique you have went out of your way to belittle/rubbish my parenting skills and balanced views,I also have feelings.

I'll leave it at that and make clear I don't feel the need to engage in conversation with you in future .We are clearly poles apart on just about anything and it pisses other posters off when other posters go head to head on something they have no interest in.
 
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brownbagtiger said:
The main reason I have a problem with “cis” is nothing to do with Musk. It’s due to the fundamental shift from defining sexuality as sex based attraction to gender based attraction (see stonewall list of definitions). I understand that gender is considered as an innate, personal feeling and expression of ones’s masculinity or femininity based in cultural expectations. And transwomen and transmen feel their gender is incongruent with their biological sex. Cis is thus used to describe “not trans”. However, I don’t feel a sense of gender. I’ve considered it and searched, and can’t find it. I just am who I am and I don’t care about whether I conform or not to stereotypes. So I object to being labelled cis on the basis it assumes I have an innate sense of gender. Ironically, some organisations would consider me agender and thus queer.
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Exactly
My wife is very practical. She has lots of tools and deals with all problems around the house.
When we go to a car showroom the salesman (it's always been men) will start telling me about the car but pretty soon he realises I dont have a clue and my wife is the knowledgeable one. Before cars were computerised my wife would deal with our cars and any cars she'd see broken down on the road.
We both have our own interests and aptitudes.
We have never felt a need to conform or rebel about stereotypes.
I dont understand why LGB is linked to trans. LGB is a sexual attraction towards others whereas trans is a feeling about yourself.
 
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DMD said:
It's more about facts than feelings, I thought you'd try to latch on to the grammar aspect, but your attempt at a lesson in English is simply a diversion away from the issue, as the use of pronouns is an absolute mess, and has no meaningful link to scientific facts anyway.

It's no good claiming to respect the fact that people don't like it and then trying to justify it's use, or trying to claim some nonsense about it being down to Musk. You mentioning that indicates you know that people find it objectionable, yet you still chose to use it. The blame sits squarely with the hypocrites who try to sneak it in in the hope it becomes legitimate,

It isn't used much in credible scientific circles, as it's pretty much a term created by a movement started by people with extremely dubious sexual preferences designed to legitimise their claims. Until relatively recently, gender was more a term for inanimate objects.

As I said earlier, I don't care how others choose to live, and I actually like to see people being individuals and characters and being free to choose, but as also mentioned, I'm not alone in believing that the current trend is a fashion doing more harm than good, as it's been hijacked by people with other agendas. That is a view shared by people I know that are long term cross dressers and gays who say it's making their life harder, and the push back is not usually from straight people.

I mentioned earlier the fights I saw in town, and they were alphabet people disagreeing with other alphabet peoples views.

If they can't understand the gay b c's, then it's understandable that others don't either, but at least the straight people seem to be far more tolerant.
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Alphabet people? Are you testing me Satan?

And if I was going for the super gaslighty facts vs feelings approach, I’d probably want to make sure my facts were definitely in order. The prefix cis- was used in academic circles long before it fell into the mainstream and much like the word gammon (which bizarrely is now viewed as racist by the receiving end), the meaning only changed when people who were called it became annoyed, despite it in no way being an insult.
 
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brownbagtiger said:
The main reason I have a problem with “cis” is nothing to do with Musk. It’s due to the fundamental shift from defining sexuality as sex based attraction to gender based attraction (see stonewall list of definitions). I understand that gender is considered as an innate, personal feeling and expression of ones’s masculinity or femininity based in cultural expectations. And transwomen and transmen feel their gender is incongruent with their biological sex. Cis is thus used to describe “not trans”. However, I don’t feel a sense of gender. I’ve considered it and searched, and can’t find it. I just am who I am and I don’t care about whether I conform or not to stereotypes. So I object to being labelled cis on the basis it assumes I have an innate sense of gender. Ironically, some organisations would consider me agender and thus queer.
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You’re c** if you feel comfortable with the gender identity that matches the gender you were born with. So if you’re born a woman and you live as a woman, you’re described as c**. The prefix doesn’t come out in terms of trying to insult or denigrate, it’s simply a term to describe non-trans people. The issue is that some LGB people do struggle with gender identity, so there are some legitimate concerns within the community that it isn’t representative of everybody, which is fair enough and something will inevitably come up that’s better.
 
Steven Toast said:
You’re c** if you feel comfortable with the gender identity that matches the gender you were born with. So if you’re born a woman and you live as a woman, you’re described as c**. The prefix doesn’t come out in terms of trying to insult or denigrate, it’s simply a term to describe non-trans people. The issue is that some LGB people do struggle with gender identity, so there are some legitimate concerns within the community that it isn’t representative of everybody, which is fair enough and something will inevitably come up that’s better.
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I don’t have a gender identity. As far as I can make out, gender is based on stereotypes of masculinity and femininity and I don’t buy into that.
 
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Bugger posted too soon. I wasn’t born with a gender either Steven, my biological sex was set the moment my dads sperm met my mums egg.
 
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askewshair said:
Makes total sense, though suspect it would be a nightmare to ‘police’?
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Some sports such as cycling are moving to three categories - men’s, women’s, open. I don’t know how it’s being policed but if I ruled the world a one off cheek swab would confirm whether you’re XX or XY, and then once you’re registered as a competitor you could have the choice of competing against your own sex or in the open category.
 
Ok. Does sound a sensible way forward. I’m out my depth in this subject. Where would those in transition fit in? At what point are they in the ‘open’ category?
 
Whenever they want I think Askew. We have defacto self id in the U.K. as it is, all you have to do is say “I am a woman/man”. See Emily Bridges the cyclist as an example. You’re not actually allowed to ask someone to show you their gender recognition certificate, as that can be discrimination as you are treating someone differently in the grounds of their trans status. Relatively few transgender people have them anyway, since the definition of transgender is much wider than the old fashioned transsexual terminology.
 
Ric Glasgow said:
I don't have a problem with that and if I've touched on something that may have hurt you,I apologise unreservedly.

Let's draw a line under that and leave as is.

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I do however have one or two reservations of my own about replying to any questions you put to me in future.

I feel that in some of your answers/critique you have went out of your way to belittle/rubbish my parenting skills and balanced views,I also have feelings.

I'll leave it at that and make clear I don't feel the need to engage in conversation with you in future .We are clearly poles apart on just about anything and it pisses other posters off when other posters go head to head on something they have no interest in.
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You've misinterpreted me mate, maybe it'd make more sense if I said I'm not answering that question right now.. but might in a couple of months.

I'm sorry if you took that as me questioning your parenting, I was merely expressing how I would approach being a parent, and the hope that my child, regardless of gender, would feel able to approach me about anything to do with their body they might need help understanding. You don't. That's fine.
 
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