Flagging…

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!
Status
Not open for further replies.
John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. said:
Football as a sport, indeed most sports, support these views and issues and want to show solidarity, which is fantastic progress and must be a real boon to those lads who are non-cis in a sport that rarely has openly gay players.

What I do find rather hypocritical are the likes of Lineker and players such as Jordan Henderson, who say they support these causes and players wearing rainbow laces etc only to **** off for a heap or money to countries that have appalling human rights on these issues.
Click to expand...

As somebody who is politically to the left I can’t stand virtue signalling hypocrites.
One of the biggest is the champagne socialist Gary Neville.

Regards to Pride it must be nice to able to express yourself freelyand show affection to the person you love without the possibility of getting your head kicked in so good luck to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. and Mckechnie Orange
brownbagtiger said:
of course transwomen and transmen should be able to participate in elite sport, as in any other part of public life. In the sex category appropriate for them, like Quinn the Canadian footballer.

The science is clear that men as a category are taller and stronger than women, with greater lung capacity. As a consequence there’s not many elite sports where men and women compete as equals. Dressage is the only one I can think of off the top of my head.
Click to expand...
Yeah, a lot of the equestrian sports have men and women competing as equal. Which surprises me, as I’d have thought they need a lot of strength to compete at the very top in those sports.
As well as the physical differences, I also wonder how much is cultural, for instance many more men generally compete in sport and the larger the base of the pyramid, usually the better the elite. As the number of women playing sport grows, we may see some narrowing of the difference?
 
brownbagtiger said:
IMHO, the worst thing to happen to LGB rights in recent years has been the forced-teaming with TQ+ along with the confusion of sex versus gender. LGB folk had pretty much got to legal equality in the UK with the introduction of marriage equality (still the state church ie CofE to go), and had majority public acceptance that homophobia is a bad thing. Instead of then focussing on supporting LGB folk in areas where they still faced bigotry (like football!), or for youngsters who are confused about their sexuality and facing hostility from family and community, or supporting LGB people abroad in areas where homosexuality is still illegal, Stonewall went a bit mad with the TQ+ stuff. And now lesbians like Ric's daughter are called sexual racists for preferring their sexual partners to be female bodied, mediocre male athletes are taking over women's sports (all medalists in the women 800m at the 2012 olympics were biological men with a developmental sex disorder

Click to expand...

Are you sure about that? Two of the medal winners were Russians who got caught doping. I remember one, the south African, but she was/is intersex ie not born a biological male nor a biological female. I think she is a different category from a transexual.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petersaxton and Drew
John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. said:
Football as a sport, indeed most sports, support these views and issues and want to show solidarity, which is fantastic progress and must be a real boon to those lads who are non-cis in a sport that rarely has openly gay players.

What I do find rather hypocritical are the likes of Lineker and players such as Jordan Henderson, who say they support these causes and players wearing rainbow laces etc only to **** off for a heap or money to countries that have appalling human rights on these issues.
Click to expand...
Completely agree John.
And Henderson is worse because he was so far the other way in being overtly supportive of the gay community.
You could argue Lineker was just doing what his job expected, but Henderson has made a conscious choice that makes his previous stance look disingenuous
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drew
askewshair said:
As the number of women playing sport grows, we may see some narrowing of the difference?
Click to expand...

There certainly might be a narrowing of difference at a social or amateur level, which will be more fun for all of us.

But the difference between Elite men and Elite women is huge, and relatively far larger. If the debatable women's 100m record is ignored, there's a full second difference between the two sexes - this is an enormous difference in this specialised race.

Similar differences are shown in strength - the heaviest ever woman's deadlift, can be matched by any male club level powerlifter.

The newer synthetic performance enhancers hitting the markets from China, work far better and effectively in a man's metabolism and so this will further the difference over the next decade.
 
Heimdallr said:
There certainly might be a narrowing of difference at a social or amateur level, which will be more fun for all of us.

But the difference between Elite men and Elite women is huge, and relatively far larger. If the debatable women's 100m record is ignored, there's a full second difference between the two sexes - this is an enormous difference in this specialised race.

Similar differences are shown in strength - the heaviest ever woman's deadlift, can be matched by any male club level powerlifter.

The newer synthetic performance enhancers hitting the markets from China, work far better and effectively in a man's metabolism and so this will further the difference over the next decade.
Click to expand...
I would argue that under a level playing field, if the gap is closing at amateur level, that is because more women are involved and so the gap at elite level would reduce, though because of males greater strength will never catch up.
Sounds like the synthetic performance enhancers will probably halt that narrowing. Are these legal?

Btw I learnt tonight that women ultra marathon runners compete equally with men.
 
Last edited:
dennisboothstash said:
Completely agree John.
And Henderson is worse because he was so far the other way in being overtly supportive of the gay community.
You could argue Lineker was just doing what his job expected, but Henderson has made a conscious choice that makes his previous stance look disingenuous
Click to expand...
And I think this is sorta what
Gone for
Was getting at
About keeping politics or virtue signalling out of football
Just play sport and keep Schtum about life
In general
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jim the Tiger and Gone For A Walk
brownbagtiger said:
Hands up, quoted the wrong games. It was Brazil 2016.
Click to expand...

Ah, I understand. Again, it's my understanding that these athletes were born intersex, not biological males. Not sure a congenital condition is the same as
askewshair said:
I would argue that under a level playing field, if the gap is closing at amateur level, that is because more women are involved and so the gap at elite level would reduce, though because of males greater strength will never catch up.
The synthetic performance enhancers probably a hanger a lot. Are these legal?

Btw surprisingly, ultra marathon runners compete equally.
Click to expand...

Everything is legal until it's not :) the newer synthetic performance enhancers work far better, and healthier without the side effects, as they can be cycled more efficiently, so the effect hits it's peak around competition time and then doesn't show up in the urine tests. There's also newer drugs that can immediately and temporarily reduce suspiciously high testosterone levels immediately after competition.

Generally, performance enhancers work more efficiently with men, as the better ones are testosterone-functioning and so androgenic ie women don't want to take these types as they go bald and permanently damage their voices. Hence why so many female athletes get caught doping... Because they take Anavar, which is purely anabolic, not androgenic, but shows up easily in the testing. The science favours men and so at the higher level, there will be an increase in difference over the next decade.

It's unlikely that there's a top end athlete that's not 'gaming' the system in some way - it's such a fractional business that all will do what they can to take advantage. They're genetic freaks as it stands and so the extra help is to fine tune them above the select few in their category.
 
Heimdallr said:
Ah, I understand. Again, it's my understanding that these athletes were born intersex, not biological males. Not sure a congenital condition is the same as.
Click to expand...
intersex is no longer considered the correct term, it’s now Disorders of Sexual Development, of which there are many types. The medalists at the 2016 games all had the same type of DSD - a disorder of an XY type. Ie they are men but their external genitalia were ambiguous at birth and so, at least in Caster Semenya’s case, they are legally female as that’s what’s on their birth certificate. They still went through male puberty and had male development in terms of strength, bone density and lung capacity.
 
brownbagtiger said:
intersex is no longer considered the correct term, it’s now Disorders of Sexual Development, of which there are many types. The medalists at the 2016 games all had the same type of DSD - a disorder of an XY type. Ie they are men but their external genitalia were ambiguous at birth and so, at least in Caster Semenya’s case, they are legally female as that’s what’s on their birth certificate. They still went through male puberty and had male development in terms of strength, bone density and lung capacity.
Click to expand...
Wonder why that would manifest (no 80’s pun intended) in the 800 m specifically?
 
Ric Glasgow said:
I just wanted to put a little additional content to this as a Father of a gay Daughter(I don't know if that's the appropriate word,if it isn't,I apologise).

After reading through the previous comments and the arguments that ensued I thought I'd ask her what she thought?

I took a brief mental note of her answers and these are her thoughts..

She used to go to the occasional pride event but doesn't bother any more,she thinks it used to be a good thing and very much so in Football because a lot of male players are scared to 'come out' because of the reaction.

She doesn't celebrate or care about it anymore because she feels that the trans people and non binary have pushed people out of their own community and a lot of her friends feel the same way.

She did feel it was important because gay people didn't have adoption or marriage rights in the past and she also felt it important to stand up for the rights of people in the numerous countries where a death penalty can be given out for being gay.

To underline this,I'd like to point out that my Daughter feels very lucky to have such a supportive family,we all love her to bits,why wouldn't we?.She more or less said that some parents don't and never will understand which is awful for the people subject to that..

Just to add,I've read your post and I understand it,you always have been a very clear and forthright poster and I for one appreciate your posts.As for GFAW,I've took no offence,maybe it didn't come across very well to some people but I'm fairly sure he didn't say what he said to cause offence to anyone.Maybe he'll read your post and see where you are coming from...I have.
Click to expand...

Good post. Like you, I'm happy for people to live how they choose, as long as they're not hurting anyone, and also like you, I know a fair few gay people that will have little if anything to do with Pride as they feel it has been hijacked and works against them.

I was in town on Saturday, and saw a few bits of violence, which was ironically different members of the pride community against each other.

The queue for taxis was longer than normal, and the driver I got said that it's because a fair few other drivers did not turn out on Pride event nights due to the trouble from those involved, and he was clear that it wasn't straight people picking on gays, but in fighting among the different factions.
 
  • Like
Reactions: petersaxton, Ric Glasgow and Gone For A Walk
Chazz Rheinhold said:
And I think this is sorta what
Gone for
Was getting at
About keeping politics or virtue signalling out of football
Just play sport and keep Schtum about life
In general
Click to expand...
Nah
Football has been great for improving inclusivity
We shouldn’t shy away from how powerful that is just because some players appear hypocritical
 
  • Like
Reactions: Drew, PLT, What? A full dog? and 1 other person
askewshair said:
I would argue that under a level playing field, if the gap is closing at amateur level, that is because more women are involved and so the gap at elite level would reduce, though because of males greater strength will never catch up.
Sounds like the synthetic performance enhancers will probably halt that narrowing. Are these legal?

Btw I learnt tonight that women ultra marathon runners compete equally with men.
Click to expand...
No doubt in my mind that in horse-racing the top women jockeys are equal to their male counterparts.Rachel Blackmore and Holly Doyle(for example but not limited to)have proved on numerous occasions that they are as strong in a finish as the top name male jockeys...
 
  • Like
Reactions: DMD and NewcastleTiger
askewshair said:
Wonder why that would manifest (no 80’s pun intended) in the 800 m specifically?
Click to expand...
It’s interesting isn’t it? I presume it’s something like the body types of people (muscle mass, build) with this type of DSD are particularly suited to middle distance running.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom
Back