Off Topic European Debate Thread

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In, out, or undecided?

  • In

    Votes: 12 27.3%
  • Out

    Votes: 27 61.4%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 5 11.4%

  • Total voters
    44
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I would give up now MTG as you just admitted to everyone that dont know the difference between gross and net as you said yourself the gross figure is the net figure <doh>

You cant argue / debate with us if you dont know the basics.

Surely you must question your own opinion now as you cant get the simple stuff correct.
I'd go back to the sags board if I were you
 
Taken from the times

It is not true that Britain sends £350 million a week to Brussels. According to the UK Statistics Authority, the actual figure is £136 million. It is not true that EU migration is the main cause of pressure on the NHS. That pressure comes from an ageing population and the rising cost of treatments.

It is not true that Turkey is on a path to EU membership, for all that Mr Cameron was a supporter of the idea until as recently as 2014. Since then, Ankara under President Erdogan has shown decreasing interest in accession, which takes a minimum of 15 years and which France and Germany would veto anyway.

It is not true, finally, that Brexit would answer at a stroke the prayers of those Vote Leave is wooing. This is especially so in Labour strongholds where most social problems predate the EU’s expansion and most immigration is from outside Europe.

A vote for Brexit is unquestionably economically riskier than a vote to remain.

Experts overwhelmingly concur. Paul Johnson, of the fiercely independent Institute for Fiscal Studies, puts the chances of Britain being worse off after a vote to leave at 90 per cent. The Treasury has projected an “immediate and profound” downturn in the short term in the event of a Brexit win, and a 15-year outlook of less trade, less investment and less growth than if Britain stayed in. The Bank of England, the US Federal Reserve, the IMF, the World Bank, the World Trade Organisation (WTO), the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) and nine out of ten economists polled by Ipsos MORI broadly agree.”


Read more at http://www.strongerin.co.uk/newspap...al_divide_say_vote_remain#L8dZX5cUXPIi8TJQ.99

It is not true that Britain sends £350 million ... A point already addressed with facts in this thread (pages ago). And you avoided answering them.

It is not true that Turkey is on a path to EU membership, for all that Mr Cameron was a supporter of the idea ...A point already addressed with facts and opinion in this thread (pages ago...). And you avoided answering them.

It is not true, finally, that Brexit would answer at a stroke the prayers of those Vote Leave is wooing ... What prayers are these? It is clear that some concerns could, and would be more easily addressed outside of the EU by a truly self governing Country. Being outside of the EU would be no utopia, but Britain would be able to pursue its own path via its own elected leaders.

Experts overwhelmingly concur ... That Britain has not boomed whilst in the EU. Britain has not been recession proofed, and Britain has massive challenges ahead of it in, or out e.g. If the UK economy performs more smoothly whilst in Europe the UK's massive infrastructure problem with immigration and a growing (not ageing, growing) population worsens ever as more people will want to live here - Remain has NO plan to deal with this.
 
A few more fact-ett's (that might surprise some). The following are in VERY round numbers for discussion purposes:

- The UK annual GDP is circa £2,100 billion.
- circa 75% of this is SERVICES
- manufacturing is only 12%
- construction is even less at 6%
- the next biggest category is agriculture at 0.7%

The services figure is particularly staggering. Napoleon was right, we ARE a nation of shopkeepers. Even more staggering, after all the headlines and rhetoric, is that the Daily Mail should come out in support of Remain. That one was definitely from left field.

Conservatively, even a 1% drop in GDP (and I think it will be worse) is £21 billion. This is nearly 3 times what we will save in membership fee and that is just for starters.

Currently, we have 750,000 unemployed, now we can all argue about the real figure but we will use the official stats for discussion. Brexit will IMO accelerate this figure and if we get to 1m (conservatively), this will be a further BIG drain on the economy with the double whammy of less tax income and more in benefit payments. This can easily put another £20 billion on the drop in income so we are up to £40 billion LESS money to spend on the NHS, etc and there are many other factors to be considered which will put a drain on the economy so, we could quite easily get to £50 billion worse off a year without even trying.

I think that this could be considered grounds to hold an emergency budget, don't you...??!!!

This whole Leave campaign is about controlling borders and immigration. HELL YEAH, lets take back control of our country and tell the EU to do one and in the process, **** ourselves over and in the poor house to boot. The days of the UK being a power in the world are over, we make very little and the only thing that we have left of any note is our financial services zone which represents the bulk of the GDP of this country

No one seems to realise the importance of this and should we leave, the EU will eventually create/enhance their own version of the city. It is a case of when (and NOT IF) and when it happens, if they only take even 10% of the action, we are well and truly sunk with another £200 billion gone. Immigration pales into insignificance in the face of this.

Ironically, the city is such a cesspool that it will have absolutely ZERO qualms about joining in the dismantling of our own economy to line its own pockets so we will have ****ed ourselves over, AGAIN...

So yes, lets be masters of our own destiny and drive the country into the ****ter, authors of our own downfall more like. I am done with this now other than to add one last comment per Bill Clinton, "it's the economy stupid" - nothing else matters...
 
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Mtg go to work and ask his boss ????
Silly sod is still in education.

Prem - you say the EU will get 'pissy' if we leave.
Grow some my friend.
The EU is a basket case and will implode sooner or later.
It just doesn't work - check out the Euro.
The same folk you're believing told us the world would end if we didn't join the Euro.
I'll say it again - Grow Some.
 
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I'd go back to the sags board if I were you

So when I replay to you with facts and point out your many mistakes (in a well mannered, friendly and thoughful way), instead of you answering the questions put to you or saying thanks for the corrections, you throw insults at me and now what seems to be a threat too. Such a shame that you are being like this.

Thought this was a debate thread? I cant see much debating from you. Instead you just ignore questions, you repeat yourself a lot on things that have already been answered by us many times and then throw on a few insults when you get corrected.

That is an interesting tactic you have. How is it working out for you? You being like this has already made ROD decide LEAVE. You seem to be doing great. Keep it up :)
 
The simple fact is do we govern ourselves,make our own decisions,run our own country with a elected government.

Or do we let un-elected free loaders in Brussels dictate and tell our government what to do,and do with our money as it wishes.

We are big enough and strong enough to stand on our on two feet,and are more than capable of running our country.

Vote Leave.
 
I would just say with my mod hat on, although I am LEAVE, mtg is putting up an opposite point of view, if we agree with him or not let's not become a wolf pack, we ask for answers, he gives them from his point of view and good luck to him, remember it's not personal, it's what we all personally believe in.. Up the City..
 
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I would just say with my mod hat on, although I am LEAVE, mtg is putting up an opposite point of view, if we agree with him or not let's not become a wolf pack, we ask for answers, he gives them from his point of view and good luck to him, remember it's not personal, it's what we all personally believe in..

I have received insults from MTG and what looks like a threat.

I suppose, as I am just a "sag" it doesnt matter I guess :)
 
I would just say with my mod hat on, although I am LEAVE, mtg is putting up an opposite point of view, if we agree with him or not let's not become a wolf pack, we ask for answers, he gives them from his point of view and good luck to him, remember it's not personal, it's what we all personally believe in.. Up the City..

He is ignoring questions when he cant answer them or posted something untrue. Then there is calling posts bullshit and name calling.
 
Why are you picking on me, all I've done is advocate a bit of common sense and fairness, I like mtg and he has displayed some bollocks, I don't agree with him but he has got a right to express his point of view.

Sorry I don't get it..



 
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Tbh I will admit that I did slightly go to far with a few comments but the sag one was a joke.

In my opinion scholarships are there to reward people as opposed to anything else and I was a bit overly passionate being a student and going for scholarships myself.

As for the dodging questions part, it's just that there are so many posts for the out side and I don't have time to read or respond to all of them as my A level exams have just reached its most intense period and so they are a priority.

I don't want to cause any upsets for when this ends and barring disgruntlement from whichever side loses we can all unite to moan about the football <laugh>

At the end of the day both sides of the argument have passionate issues and agendas and so it will get heated.
 
Why are you picking on me, all I've done is advocate a bit of common sense and fairness, I like mtg and he has displayed some bollocks, I don't agree with him but he has got a right to express his point of view.

Sorry I don't get it..

Fairness is taking a considerate view when answering others posts. Something the poster in question has not displayed when answering posts, or not which frequently has been the case.

Back on topic.

Tonight on TV Mr Cameron displayed a rare moment of honesty. "We pay in more than we get out" ... Although he said it so fast he rivalled a cattle market auctioneer on amphetamines.

Tonight Mr Cameron mentioned reform. It's naive that Mr Cameron thinks anyone would believe him when he says he can get the EU to reform, the EU is heading towards expansion and ever closer integration. The prospect is the message a remain vote will send to the EU, it's a green light for closer integration, not reform. The only way the UK will see reform and change within the EU is to leave, then the real reform and negotiations begin.
 
Lets not let this get out of hand again eh!

There are strong opinions here of where our future lies, I have made my opinion perfectly clear, but democracy is about others having theirs too., even if you completely disagree with them a debate should include all the other opinions surely?
 
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Fairness is taking a considerate view when answering others posts. Something the poster in question has not displayed when answering posts, or not which frequently has been the case.

Back on topic.

Tonight on TV Mr Cameron displayed a rare moment of honesty. "We pay in more than we get out" ... Although he said it so fast he rivalled a cattle market auctioneer on amphetamines.

Tonight Mr Cameron mentioned reform. It's naive that Mr Cameron thinks anyone would believe him when he says he can get the EU to reform, the EU is heading towards expansion and ever closer integration. The prospect is the message a remain vote will send to the EU, it's a green light for closer integration, not reform. The only way the UK will see reform and change within the EU is to leave, then the real reform and negotiations begin.

I must admit you have a very sensible approach and adult way of judgement, it does not always workout on forums as I have discovered, this whole thing has enveloped me for various reasons, I'm old fashioned and that is my entitlement but maybe I should step away and let a different point of view with a different aspect take over.

I'm a bit disappointed with some of the comments but maybe that is just me, I'm happy to offer the prospect to any candidate who is willing to take over the task.
 
MTG, your argument on here seems to me to be an almost mirror image to the remain campaign argument nationally..

All scare tactics with smears and not a single fact that backs up the financial argument for staying, which is by far the strongest part of the argument you have. I have not heard one single fact that has even made me twitch to my my commitment to vote out.

Camerons behaviour has actually made me more stringent in my belief that I want to leave and I want him gone as soon as possible after this vote he has proven himself to be a two faced liar.

People who have multi cultural families won't tolerate being classed as racist little Englanders anymore, it doesn't wash, genuine concerns about immigration levels are fair questions and the remain campaign insistence on referring to this as racism will backfire.
 
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