Off Topic European Debate Thread

Right - I thought I would start an official thread on here about probably the most important decision that our generation (the generation of voters) will have to take in our lifetimes.
I started this because I didn't want other football-related threads to be hijacked and descend into a Euro debate (I admit I was complicit in the last one which did this)

I personally have still not decided yet - but I am 'leaning' towards the 'out' - you guys who want 'in' please convince me.

Please can everyone keep it objective - all opinions are valid, but if you quote 'facts' in your argument then back them up by listing your source. Please also don't throw insults at each other - its pointless.

Mods - if this gets out of hand please delete it - I won't be offended.

 

Easy for me now, its not about financial issues.. Its about self governance. We will never get the chance to vote for this ever again. its about the ability to control our borders and to protect our children from the threat of terrorism without having to apologise to anyone else for doing it..Its about our own elected leaders being able to make decisions without interference.

We have ended up in an autocracy and I can't help liken it to FIFA, everyone thought it was so good and refused to believe it was capable of conspiracy but oh how that's changed, I'm certain we would be better off without them and all those who say We won't be able to make difference unless we're in, well we've been in for 30 years and haven't been able to make a difference up till now, so it simply won't happen, Cameron is spouting off about the deal he has done, it amounts to nothing!

I have seen nothing from the 'in' debate that has even began to convince me to stay..

I'm out.

 

To quote Duncan Bannstyne.... I'm oot

 

I am far from happy about the EU trying to impose their will on sovereign states, HOWEVER.... very little of what is left of the major manufacturing companies in the UK are British owned, the steel and car manufacturing industries being recent topical examples.

A large part of our manufacturing industry has fallen victim to "market forces" whereby we don't make anything anymore because the Chinese and Indian's can make it (whatever "it" is) for a fraction of the cost. I am well aware of the shoddy workmanship and materials used a lot of the time but this doesn't seem to make a difference anymore - all that matters now is that "it" is cheap.

Foreign owners only make stuff here because it gives them an "in" to EU markets. If we leave, then so will they to another EU country and that will be the end of any remaining significant manufacturing here (it is already happening)

This country is a specialist in one industry in particular i.e. financial services. London is widely trumpeted as the financial capital of the world which may well be true right now however I would argue that this is the last remaining field in which we are a world leader.

In my opinion, leaving the EU and turning this country into "Little Britain" would be a disaster of monumental proportions. The idea that it will be "business as usual" if we leave is completely delusional. Anyone who watched the voting in the Eurovision song contest anytime in the last 10 years or so will realise that the rest of Europe basically ostracises us and it will be the same in business. You may well say "**** em" then but if no one buys our goods and services, it is actually us getting ****ed... Likewise, the stuff being put around that the rest of the world will be queuing up to do business with the UK is, at best, fanciful and naïve.

Leaving the EU will be the beginning of the end of the UK having any voice with the grown ups. We will become marginalised and a second rate country with little influence on anything and things will will really unravel if the rest of the world decides that they have had enough of London calling the financial shots (and sooner or later, it WILL happen if we leave). Eventually, there will be nothing left of industry in this country except for call centres - the one's that haven't gone to India that is....

So in summary, whilst I intensely dislike the French and German's idea of a United States of Europe, the alternative is, IMHO, way worse. We need to stay in and fight the idea of the federalisation of Europe and in this respect, we are far from alone. The Visegrad countries are certainly in accord with the UK on this subject and as the migrant situation in Europe worsens, others will join the fight.

There you go, there is my 4p's worth and, on a Friday night too...!!!

 

I'm voting in

Mainly because I believe we're better off financially in the EU. Whilst many vital industries such as STEM (science technology engineering maths) in which I which to pursue a career within, rely heavily on the collaboration of the EU and EU funding.

I also believe that leaving cannot possibly leave us in a better position than staying in. At best we can have the same as now including immigration and all other EU laws without having an input into it or getting other benefits. At worst I can see us shrink on the global scale as EU countries get investments at our expense.

I do not believe that we are in a position to negotiate a good deal with the EU or the rest of the world outside of the EU.

I believe that leaving will have a very small impact on immigration, if any at all.

I believe that as a neutral it's best to stick to the status quo and continue as normal as nothing can get worse!!

Leaving is a very big risk and there is no evidence of us being better of for it. However there is a lot of evidence for is being better in the EU

 

I've nearly all but decided, but I am open to be switched opposite way.
I don't want to know about oversea's visitors, illegal or not illegal. I know about that and as far as I'm concerned the horse has bolted on that one.
I saw a good you tube clip that I put on another thread which opened my eyes up to restrictions from the EU on our science in medical research. Our Farmers can't trade without x being the price and y in place. We can't fish in our waters as its distributed etc. These are just one or two things I can think off and don't want to bore you with all my other gripes.
However like I said, I might see something from the in campaign that will swing my vote the other way.

Please don't argue with my thoughts or decisions, I'm old enough and big enough to decide for myself

 

I've just added a voting pol to give an interesting view of trend - and added my 'undecided' vote!.

 

Out for me want to have laws done by people actually we vote for, LGBT rights the European union has done nothing for. 1 voice against 27 is not good enough. Got a whole commonwealth to trade with where we are limited.

 

100% out and every right minded person should do as well.

We have a muslin running London now,what is it coming to.

 

It's called progress that has nothing to do with his ability to be Mayor of London very out of order that comment

 

can't really believe you've wrote this, I hope you've been drinking

 

That is a frankly ridiculous comment. So the wheels are coming off now he is major of London but everything was fine when he was a cabinet minister in a major post running the country...???

I ain't no tree hugger but that comment is out of order as I am not sure what his religion has to do with anything. If he was catholic, protestant, jewish, lutheran or even church of the Jedi, you wouldn't have said anything but because he muslim, he must be bad...????

He is UK born and his parents came here to live in the 60's from a former British colony. You know, the one's we are going to be trading with if we leave the EU, a fair number of whom are muslim (or had you overlooked that). At that time, we were shipping people in from the colonies to do the jobs that the British worker didn't want to do, like drive buses, etc...

My parents came to this country from Europe to live as well in the 50's They escaped from a repressive and dictatorial regime that mercilessly put down the peoples uprising. I was born in, and am a UK citizen but not a muslim so, am I ok...?

 

Progress he has not been in 24 hours and one of the first things he has said is there are two many white people working on London Transport.
Sorry that comment sums him up.
Absolute joke do you people not realise this country is gradually being taken over by islam.
We are already seeing major friction in our towns and citys,within a few years we will have civil war mark my words.

 

Chatting absolute bollocks.

The aim of isis and similar scummy groups is to divide.

You are being affected by their shameful attention seeking inhumane antics and therefore they're winning. We can't let them win

Sent from my D6603 using Tapatalk

 

No, I think it was Enoch Powell who said it first in 1968.

Whilst there is undoubtedly a threat from extremists, Sadiq Khan clearly does not represent them. 99.9% of muslims are peaceful people but you seem unable to separate them from those that pose the threat. Amongst other things, Khan is a lawyer whose sworn duty is to protect the right to freedom of speech which of course is not permitted in the radical philosophy.

Khan was an MP, democratically elected by the people of Britain, and the same applies now he is mayor. You may not like it but, the people voted for it and this is the fundamental difference between democracy and dogma...

 

My heart says out and good riddance to being dictated to by Brussels and the clueless Merkel.

But my head is saying stay for reasons best known to itself

 

I have business contacts and therefore spend time in the Leeds Bradford area.
All I'll say is RR's words may well be 'over the top' but not so far removed from the truth as some on here think.
I've travelled to London many many times in the last 40 years.
They love to call us Welsh but am I allowed to say London isn't England anymore.
No, it's a one way street.

On the EU vote - it's a definite out.

 

You can really tell you're a middle aged right wing guy

 

Sorry mate but i have been around a few years now,I'm certainly not anti foreign,having spent holidays all round the world,and meeting lots of decent people,but what is happening to Great Britain is not good.i am certainly prepaired to say we need to take our country back.

 

And how do you plan to do that, mass deportations, impisonment of innocent people, torture, hunger games?