EURO 2024

[TopCat.]

Whatever the case there's no way Southgate can stay.

He's tarnished by this tournament and won't be able to shake it off imo.

He seems unable to function in this kind of pressurised situation.

When you can see players talking amongst themselves and changing position it makes you wonder why he's sitting there with his hands clenched. Spain were always going to score so we knew we'd need two goals to win and that wasn't likely to happen with that set up.

Everyone knew that starting with Kane was walking out with a white flag. Where was the harm in having him on the bench, starting with a real threat up front and someone to occupy two defenders. Spain knew they only needed one quick defender, when they were attacking, to handle Kane.

Worst of all, when Spain were playing out from the keeper, Kane's 'press' was like a grandad shuffling up the garden to check his leeks.

I'm not sure about tarnishing his reputation but after 8 years it's probably time to move on. We have the best set of players in a generation and I think we need a coach who is another level up from Southgate.
The question is, other than Lee Johnson* - is there an English Coach out there who is on that elite level


*Source: L.Johnson 2021

 

[SAFCDRUM]

Past tournaments when we havnt gond as far, look who has knocked us out.....Brazil, Germany, Argentina, Portugal. It can't be denied that we've had the rub of the green recently in terms of how the draw has panned out for us.

 

[The Norton Cat]

Very raw for me, too raw probably.

The game swung in the first 5 mins of the second half in my opinion. We were not alert after half time and players did not do some jobs. Spain are such good front runners. But at just 1 down we always knew a goal was there for us. The winner is a killer though, so late. You have to be managing the game at that point. We were wide open to the counter attack on 86 minutes, mind boggling that to me.

Credit to Spain. They look to have the players to have another dominant era to me. They have better players than England in my opinion. We get a bit to carried away with the Prem being the best league etc when the reality is quite different. Yamal, Williams, Rodri, Fabian, Le Normande would all get in our team. Maybe Cucarrella too with Shaw unfit. Olmo is perhaps the most underrated player they have, but he was better than Bellingham this tournament.

I think overall we have had players who have not quite met their own standards. Rice hasnt looked his usual solid and dominant self. Stones hasnt carried the ball as well. Bellingham has looked leggy to me. Kane hasnt been mobile. Our set pieces have been poor as well, when usually they are a threat - probably missed the menace Maguire brings to those. I think we have to look also at the general quality - are they as good as the opposition players? On last nights showing Spain have better players. It wouldnt surprise me if we play big semi and final games against each other over the next 4-6 years.

Southgate? I think he will resign. I think the treatment of him by sections of the media and some fans has been shocking this tournament. 8 years in that job will take its toll I suspect. He is as proud an Englishman as there is and I suspect he is hurting. To those saying he isnt brave enough or doesnt have the balls for it you have really lost me. He stood up and took a penalty for England at one time, he has made his big calls as he sees them, he has fronted up to a variety of on and off field situations in his time. He has shown how brave he is and that he has the balls time and time again in my opinion.

Who will replace him? I would expect it to be Carsley personally. The FA when putting Southgate in charge of the u21s had a vision of creating a rolling appointment approach of u21 to first team. Different people in charge so maybe differenf thinking, but I doubt it. Carsley has done very well at u21s and the players making their mark now know him well. Makes sense. Plus money is tight and we arent going to be paying top whack. Potter may have a chance as he is out of work, but the difference between club management and international management is night and day and I would think someone like him wants a crack at another big club job first.

Still hurting, so so close again...

Agree with a lot of this. There have been a lot of poor individual performances and Rice was probably the worst. I think he's an exceptional player but didn't live up to his own standards. He spoke prior to, or early on in the tournament, about the players being under pressure and I think that might have been an admission on his own part that he felt under immense pressure coming into the tournament. That could account for his poor performances.

I also tend to agree about Southgate and bravery. Just because he comes across as a fairly mild kind of bloke, I think its easy for people to assume that he's weak. I don't think that's the case at all. He's consistently played a cautious game, designed to send us as far in tournaments as possible, even during friendlies and qualifiers when he could let the handbrake off a bit, and often in the face of public and press criticism of that approach. That shows he's not a pushover and he was, arguably, right to do that as he's got us to more major finals than any other manager. I completely agree with anyone saying that team selections haven't been quite right, but I don't think that's down to a lack bravery; his decisions show he's capable of making those decisions. The public expectation that certain players will play makes team selection very difficult. If he'd played Watkins (or Palmer) instead of Kane (or Foden) last night, and the result had been the same, the press, Twitter etc would be filled with people screaming that he'd picked the wrong players. The criticism would have been just as bad, if not worse.

 

[Gordon Armstrong]

Is that duck down?

He looks happy enough to me

 

[Nads]

Howe has probably done more than Potter in management tbf to him

Itll be 1 of these 2, potter is the easier appointment as hes out of work but i actually think howe would be a cracking appointment for England

I like how Potter moulds teams though.

Howe hasn’t ever mastered fully balancing a side.

Likewise though I’d actually be more than delighted with either.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

I'm not sure about tarnishing his reputation but after 8 years it's probably time to move on. We have the best set of players in a generation and I think we need a coach who is another level up from Southgate.
The question is, other than Lee Johnson* - is there an English Coach out there who is on that elite level


*Source: L.Johnson 2021

Probably 20 odd years ago, maybe longer, the FA recognised that the rest of the world had moved on and we needed to produce more technical footballers. They achieved this by overhauling the academy system. All academies have to develop footballers in a modern, technical way or they lose their status. As a result our U17, U19 etc. teams win WCs and ECs. That is the model that Scotland needs to look at as they just aren't producing good footballers. The gap now for the English FA is producing top level coaches. Its interesting that Sunderland feel the need to go abroad because its clear that the likes of Alex Neil and Tony Mowbray are, at heart, old style managers. I have no clue as to what the answer is but it needs a similar process that they have done with academies. I fear that all they will do is force through succession planning as they did with Southgate and may well do with Carsley. The only English coaches who have takenover at top four clubs are Potter and Lampard and they both failed. That is a disgrace. For me, we now produce top class players who are comfortable playing at the very top level but lack the top level coaching. I think Southgate has been one of the weak links.

 

[Smug in Boots]

He looks happy enough to me

Great comeback.

 

[FellTop]

Probably 20 odd years ago, maybe longer, the FA recognised that the rest of the world had moved on and we needed to produce more technical footballers. They achieved this by overhauling the academy system. All academies have to develop footballers in a modern, technical way or they lose their status. As a result our U17, U19 etc. teams win WCs and ECs. That is the model that Scotland needs to look at as they just aren't producing good footballers. The gap now for the English FA is producing top level coaches. Its interesting that Sunderland feel the need to go abroad because its clear that the likes of Alex Neil and Tony Mowbray are, at heart, old style managers. I have no clue as to what the answer is but it needs a similar process that they have done with academies. I fear that all they will do is force through succession planning as they did with Southgate and may well do with Carsley. The only English coaches who have takenover at top four clubs are Potter and Lampard and they both failed. That is a disgrace. For me, we now produce top class players who are comfortable playing at the very top level but lack the top level coaching. I think Southgate has been one of the weak links.

The coaching qualifications are the same across UEFA nations. English coaches do nothing different in terms of qualifications to French ones.

 

[TopCat.]

Probably 20 odd years ago, maybe longer, the FA recognised that the rest of the world had moved on and we needed to produce more technical footballers. They achieved this by overhauling the academy system. All academies have to develop footballers in a modern, technical way or they lose their status. As a result our U17, U19 etc. teams win WCs and ECs. That is the model that Scotland needs to look at as they just aren't producing good footballers. The gap now for the English FA is producing top level coaches. Its interesting that Sunderland feel the need to go abroad because its clear that the likes of Alex Neil and Tony Mowbray are, at heart, old style managers. I have no clue as to what the answer is but it needs a similar process that they have done with academies. I fear that all they will do is force through succession planning as they did with Southgate and may well do with Carsley. The only English coaches who have takenover at top four clubs are Potter and Lampard and they both failed. That is a disgrace. For me, we now produce top class players who are comfortable playing at the very top level but lack the top level coaching. I think Southgate has been one of the weak links.

I think there is a dearth of top players going into coaching because they simply don't need the money or the hassle. They retire as very, very rich men and most don't need to work. Then you have the option of being a pundit - Roy Keane apparently gets £1m a year from his work on Sky. Why would you bother of the hassle of coaching when you have the best job in the world?

You are right though - more needs to be done to improve the level of British coaches

 

[Disco down under]

"England were one of the worst attacking sides at Euro 2024, in terms of both shot quantity and quality.
Only five teams shot less often than England.
Only Scotland, Serbia and Slovenia had a worst attack in terms of expected goals.
Discounting penalties, only Scotland created worse-quality chances on average."
[FONT=ReithSans, Helvetica, Arial, freesans, sans-serif]
BBC Sport.

Not sure if the above makes getting to the final and narrowly losing more or less impressive.[/FONT]

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

The coaching qualifications are the same across UEFA nations. English coaches do nothing different in terms of qualifications to French ones.

I get that but our system is failing and it is the FA's job to address that. I have no idea what the answer is but something isn't working.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

I think there is a dearth of top players going into coaching because they simply don't need the money or the hassle. They retire as very, very rich men and most don't need to work. Then you have the option of being a pundit - Roy Keane apparently gets £1m a year from his work on Sky. Why would you bother of the hassle of coaching when you have the best job in the world?

You are right though - more needs to be done to improve the level of British coaches

I'm not sure whether top players tend to make top coaches. The Spanish coach had a canny career as a footballer but not a top career. Similarly Wenger and Klopp had nothing careers but are top, top coaches. As I say I don't know what the answer is but its the biggest challenge for the FA.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

"England were one of the worst attacking sides at Euro 2024, in terms of both shot quantity and quality.
Only five teams shot less often than England.
Only Scotland, Serbia and Slovenia had a worst attack in terms of expected goals.
Discounting penalties, only Scotland created worse-quality chances on average."
[FONT=ReithSans, Helvetica, Arial, freesans, sans-serif]
BBC Sport.

Not sure if the above makes getting to the final and narrowly losing more or less impressive.[/FONT]

England getting to the final hasn't done us any favours. We played no one of note and had a very lucky draw. In reality we may have been the 5th or 6th best team there. I would argue that along with Spain, Germany, France, Portugal and possibly another such as Turkey, were better than England. Its the ulitiamte example of flattering to deceive.

 

[TopCat.]

I'm not sure whether top players tend to make top coaches. The Spanish coach had a canny career as a footballer but not a top career. Similarly Wenger and Klopp had nothing careers but are top, top coaches. As I say I don't know what the answer is but its the biggest challenge for the FA.

Yeah it's a fair point - a lot of the top coaches were average players (Ferguson, Klopp, Van Gaal, Mourinho, AVB, Wenger etc) but even your average Joe coming through after 10 years playing lower end PL doesn't need to work anymore.

 

[TopCat.]

England getting to the final hasn't done us any favours. We played no one of note and had a very lucky draw. In reality we may have been the 5th or 6th best team there. I would argue that along with Spain, Germany, France, Portugal and possibly another such as Turkey, were better than England. Its the ulitiamte example of flattering to deceive.

Bit harsh that - Switzerland are a very good team and did well. Just because they aren't traditionally a "big" team doesn't mean England's victory can be dismissed. Same for the Dutch who were very good against England.

but yeah, none of the traditional big boys in England's side of the drawer, but that's not really something you can use to judge them on - you can only play and beat what is in front of you.

 

[10 Gary Rowells]

Bit harsh that - Switzerland are a very good team and did well. Just because they aren't traditionally a "big" team doesn't mean England's victory can be dismissed. Same for the Dutch who were very good against England.

but yeah, none of the traditional big boys in England's side of the drawer, but that's not really something you can use to judge them on - you can only play and beat what is in front of you.

Relatively it was as easy a draw as you could get. It was similar in the last Euros. Southgate has been a lucky coach for England and that is a nice attribute to have.

 

[TopCat.]

Relatively it was as easy a draw as you could get. It was similar in the last Euros. Southgate has been a lucky coach for England and that is a nice attribute to have.

Had a poor Italy side somehow gotten past Switzerland would that have made it a less easy draw?

 

[FellTop]

I get that but our system is failing and it is the FA's job to address that. I have no idea what the answer is but something isn't working.

I dont think our system is failing at all to be honest. We are producing top class young coaches all the time. The likes of McKenna is now in the prem alongside Howe and ONeil. If we include Brits we have Martin in there now who I think is elite level. There are English coaches abroad doing good jobs such as Barry, and there are a number of assistant coaches in the premier league who are English. Then if clubs are brave enough coaches like Evatt at Bolton are doing brilliant work.

There really is very little difference between coaches of the same generation across europe. They are very similar. We saw with own coach search how supporters are intrigued by the unknown as though the fact it is unknown means better. I am no gambler, but I would be amazed if Southgate doesnt take a break then take a top job in Europe somewhere, the likes of Italy or Portugal, because his reputation is very high everywhere but England it seems.

 

[samwise_new]

well, after having a good think about it, congratulations to the team (players and backroom staff) for reaching another final.

southgate i'm afraid has two options and the first is to walk away with his head high after improving the squad as much as he can and the other is adopting the use of different tactics...apart from one decent half and 10 minutes in the final we have been far too slow and shown very little threat plus too quick to take the safe option when on top.

from their first game i had spain as the ones to beat but even with that we have players that should have given them a tougher fight.

 

[Robertson]

I didn't say this last night due to being too annoyed. Well done to all of the England players and coaches. Did your best and can't fault that.

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