Off Topic EU deabte. Which way are you voting ?

[luvgonzo]

The problem with the youth of today is a matter of perspective, all I'm reading here is that older people are banging on about how the youth of today have no drive, have no work ethic, how exams are easier, how they have it so easy. It's the same rhetoric I've heard from my parents, they heard it from theirs, are we really in some spiral of decline? We're not, the youth of today are the same as any generation, there are good and bad, hard workers and lazy people, it will always be the same.

 

[Tobes]

I disagree with most of that for the rea sons I've already posted. There are far fewer real opportunities now than there were 20 years ago. That's based on personal experience, and shared experience from a fair few of that age.

Only the unemployment rate in 1996 was 8.1% and in March of this year sat at 5.1%

So the reality is that there's more opportunity today than there was 20 years ago, so the perception is pissed, just as I alluded to.

 

[DMD]

Only the unemployment rate in 1996 was 8.1% and in March of this year sat at 5.1%

So the reality is that there's more opportunity today than there was 20 years ago, so the perception is pissed, just as I alluded to.

There are jobs and there are jobs. The employment rate may appear to be lower, but it includes non-jobs and zero hour contracts as "employed". It's not a like for like comparison.

 

[Tiddler]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

Another nail in the 'project fear' camp's coffin.

****ers!

 

[Tobes]

There are jobs and there are jobs. The employment rate may appear to be lower, but it includes non-jobs and zero hour contracts as "employed". It's not a like for like comparison.

What is a 'non-job' exactly?

The average worker on a zero hours contract does 26 hours a week btw.

The facts are that there's 3% less unemployed than 20 years ago, so your premise that there's less opportunity can't be right can it?

The fact that you've chucked in supposed 'non-jobs' and zero hours contracts, sort of highlights the point made about some of our youth turning their noses up at potential work as opposed to sitting on their arse. Not that I agree with the widespread use of ZHC's like, but given the choice of that or the social I know what I'd take.

 

[DMD]

What is a 'non-job' exactly?

The average worker on a zero hours contract does 26 hours a week btw.

The facts are that there's 3% less unemployed than 20 years ago, so your premise that there's less opportunity can't be right can it?

The fact that you've chucked in supposed 'non-jobs' and zero hours contracts, sort of highlights the point made about some of our youth turning their noses up at potential work as opposed to sitting on their arse. Not that I agree with the widespread use of ZHC's like, but given the choice of that or the social I know what I'd take.

Righty ho, I'll let the people looking for jobs know.

 

[Tobes]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36771595

Another nail in the 'project fear' camp's coffin.

****ers!

Bless, what do you expect him to say? Nah we're ****ing right off, and all of those UK contracts we've got we'll shred

Did you manage to actually read the entire piece you posted btw?

Try the last paragraph....

In the spring, it told its workforce that increased costs and uncertainty caused by the UK leaving the EU could make the UK a less attractive country to do business in.
The giant conglomerate also warned that its plans to export wind turbine blades from a new facility in Hull were being put on hold.
The £310m manufacturing hub in the city will employ about 1,000 people.
The company has insisted this investment will continue and will be used to meet local demand, but Mr Kaeser said new trade barriers could make it uneconomical to export the blades to Denmark and Germany.

Welcome to the point about global investment in the UK. If we retain access to the free market, then it's as you were. If we end up having to pay a tariff then companies like Siemens won't be using the UK as their base for European manufacture.

 

[Tobes]

Righty ho, I'll let the people looking for jobs know.

Why am I not surprised that you hang round with the jobless.......

Yeah mate, let them know that it's nowhere near as bad as it's been in years gone by and to get off their arses, you're old enough to remember the Thatcher years aren't you? I've still got Norman Tebbit's bike in me shed.

A non-job btw, what is it exactly?

 

[Big Ern]

They dont seem to understand the wish of the British people to decide our own laws. They don't seem to understand that the EU or other countries may not agree to "the plan".

Tell me, which one of the house of lords did you vote for?
the only person you voted for was Rupert Murdoch

 

[Smirnoffpriest]

You're quick to criticise and abuse today's youth, it could be as well to consider that they didn't create the situation they're in. They're victims of the actions of the generations that preceded them. We were more fortunate an inherited a better system, but that's as much an accident of birth as it is any reflection on the ability of the generation.

Smugly and incorrectly making sweeping an ignorant generalisations is not going to work toward solving it.

+1

I think that's the 1st thing ive agreed with u on on this thread!

 

[DMD]

Why am I not surprised that you hang round with the jobless.......

Yeah mate, let them know that it's nowhere near as bad as it's been in years gone by and to get off their arses, you're old enough to remember the Thatcher years aren't you? I've still got Norman Tebbit's bike in me shed.

A non-job btw, what is it exactly?

A non-job is any number of functions that are done in place of real employment. For example people taking part time work, or the ten's of thousands hidden amongst the inflated student class.

The method of counting must have changed over 30 times since the late 70's. It's generally acknowledged that you cannot make the direct comparison that you're trying to make. Some figures are based on who claims, others on a labour force survey.

 

[Tobes]

A non-job is any number of functions that are done in place of real employment. For example people taking part time work, or the ten's of thousands hidden amongst the inflated student class.

The method of counting must have changed over 30 times since the late 70's. It's generally acknowledged that you cannot make the direct comparison that you're trying to make. Some figures are based on who claims, others on a labour force survey.

I know that, but since '95 the population has also increased by 6m so the fudging of figures can't have accounted for all of the net increase in job opportunity.

I don't see how people doing part time work is somehow a 'non-job' either, same as being a student isn't masking unemployment.

 

[DMD]

I know that, but since '95 the population has also increased by 6m so the fudging of figures can't have accounted for all of the net increase in job opportunity.

I don't see how people doing part time work is somehow a 'non-job' either, same as being a student isn't masking unemployment.

Fact remains, you can't make the comparison you did. The youth of today do not seem to have the opportunities that I was fortunate enough to have, and that isn't their fault.

 

[Tobes]

Fact remains, you can't make the comparison you did. The youth of today do not seem to have the opportunities that I was fortunate enough to have, and that isn't their fault.

No idea when you left school, but I left in the late 80's, when Thatchers Britain was in full swing. Mass unemployment in the major cities and conurbations and scant opportunity for a school leaver. Companies like Community Rural Aid were leaching cash off the Govt and turning their owners into multi millionaires, whilst training people on the dole who then got fulltime work placements for their dole plus a tenner.

There's bags of opportunity out there now, it's just that many can't be ****ing arsed, or they think they should waltz into something that pays vastly more than is realistic. The idea of delayed gratification has long since died.

I employ a number of apprentices, in a deprived area, the agency who handles the recruitment for me, seldom has more than about 4 applicants per job role.

 

[DMD]

No idea when you left school, but I left in the late 80's, when Thatchers Britain was in full swing. Mass unemployment in the major cities and conurbations and scant opportunity for a school leaver. Companies like Community Rural Aid were leaching cash off the Govt and turning their owners into multi millionaires, whilst training people on the dole who then got fulltime work placements for their dole plus a tenner.

There's bags of opportunity out there now, it's just that many can't be ****ing arsed, or they think they should waltz into something that pays vastly more than is realistic. The idea of delayed gratification has long since died.

I employ a number of apprentices, in a deprived area, the agency who handles the recruitment for me, seldom has more than about 4 applicants per job role.

I take it you've had no involvement with younger people trying to make a start in life lately.

 

[steveninaster1]

While the jobless figures have been massaged for years, the ONS have comparable stats going back to 1971 and the Bank of England have their three centuries spreadsheet going back to 1688.

You are really arguing the same point imo. Job availability has increased, but job security has decreased. The days of a job for life and final salary pensions have long gone, but the availability of work is much better than the mid eighties.

 

[HRH Custard VC]

Not mine:

After the brexit vote:

The GOOD news

1) Best Western have announced double bounce profits
2) Boeing and Lockheed Martin are not only to double work force in UK, but to invest more heavily in tis sites BECAUSE of increased optimism for the economy
3) Quite the opposite to the scaremongering stories, the vote to leave has raised hopes for BETTER environmental laws (New Scientist)
4) Socks havent gone up
5) WWIII hasnt happened
6) The labour party is torn apart
7) Amazon have announced 1,000 new UK jobs
8) Many financial economists in The Financial Times have announced that the slump has steadied much quicker than expected and that the potential for a recession is slashed significantly
9) I have my country back and, mor importantly, my British Passport
10) The EU gravy train is on the verge of derailment

.....oh and the stock market crash lasted all of half a day or so

The BAD news

1) Bob (lying paddy bastard) Geldof didnt leave the UK as promised (sniggers - another promise broken Bob? Tut tut)
2) The leading brexiteers have been threatened or betrayed out of office
3) Jeremy Corbyn still hasnt apologised for campaigning remain after 40 years of being anti EU (ask Scargill what he thinks of him)
4) No cupcake student suicides just yet
5) Anna Soubry is still employed

So there you go, not a bad life post brexit after all is it and we havent even begun the process of freeing ourselves. it just FEELS GOOD!

 

[steveninaster1]

Not mine:

After the brexit vote:

The GOOD news

1) Best Western have announced double bounce profits
2) Boeing and Lockheed Martin are not only to double work force in UK, but to invest more heavily in tis sites BECAUSE of increased optimism for the economy
3) Quite the opposite to the scaremongering stories, the vote to leave has raised hopes for BETTER environmental laws (New Scientist)
4) Socks havent gone up
5) WWIII hasnt happened
6) The labour party is torn apart
7) Amazon have announced 1,000 new UK jobs
8) Many financial economists in The Financial Times have announced that the slump has steadied much quicker than expected and that the potential for a recession is slashed significantly
9) I have my country back and, mor importantly, my British Passport
10) The EU gravy train is on the verge of derailment

.....oh and the stock market crash lasted all of half a day or so

The BAD news

1) Bob (lying paddy bastard) Geldof didnt leave the UK as promised (sniggers - another promise broken Bob? Tut tut)
2) The leading brexiteers have been threatened or betrayed out of office
3) Jeremy Corbyn still hasnt apologised for campaigning remain after 40 years of being anti EU (ask Scargill what he thinks of him)
4) No cupcake student suicides just yet
5) Anna Soubry is still employed

So there you go, not a bad life post brexit after all is it and we havent even begun the process of freeing ourselves. it just FEELS GOOD!

Can I add that the Dollars I invested in on the day of the referendum will now buy me 12% more shares

 

[DMD]

While the jobless figures have been massaged for years, the ONS have comparable stats going back to 1971 and the Bank of England have their three centuries spreadsheet going back to 1688.

You are really arguing the same point imo. Job availability has increased, but job security has decreased. The days of a job for life and final salary pensions have long gone, but the availability of work is much better than the mid eighties.

My point was actually wider than the one it's dwindled into, and was aimed at the claims about a section of "Brits". The type of job available now are not as much career oriented.

 

[DMD]

Not mine:

After the brexit vote:

The GOOD news

1) Best Western have announced double bounce profits
2) Boeing and Lockheed Martin are not only to double work force in UK, but to invest more heavily in tis sites BECAUSE of increased optimism for the economy
3) Quite the opposite to the scaremongering stories, the vote to leave has raised hopes for BETTER environmental laws (New Scientist)
4) Socks havent gone up
5) WWIII hasnt happened
6) The labour party is torn apart
7) Amazon have announced 1,000 new UK jobs
8) Many financial economists in The Financial Times have announced that the slump has steadied much quicker than expected and that the potential for a recession is slashed significantly
9) I have my country back and, mor importantly, my British Passport
10) The EU gravy train is on the verge of derailment

.....oh and the stock market crash lasted all of half a day or so

The BAD news

1) Bob (lying paddy bastard) Geldof didnt leave the UK as promised (sniggers - another promise broken Bob? Tut tut)
2) The leading brexiteers have been threatened or betrayed out of office
3) Jeremy Corbyn still hasnt apologised for campaigning remain after 40 years of being anti EU (ask Scargill what he thinks of him)
4) No cupcake student suicides just yet
5) Anna Soubry is still employed

So there you go, not a bad life post brexit after all is it and we havent even begun the process of freeing ourselves. it just FEELS GOOD!

Have roaming charges gone up? That was one of the reasons given on the official remain leaflet that should entice us to stay hooked in.