Match Day Thread Canaries V Robins

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

As long as we get a few back to back 1 zeros and keep shutting out the opposition I will be satisfied.
Not sure I will bother going to many games but I'm still glad we are not conceding for weeks on end.

 

[JM Fan]

As long as we get a few back to back 1 zeros and keep shutting out the opposition I will be satisfied.
Not sure I will bother going to many games but I'm still glad we are not conceding for weeks on end.

Hence why I'm glad I gave up my season ticket. I can't make the Hull game, but have blagged a season ticket for the game against Derby in the Lower Barclay!!!!

 

[Walsh.i.am]

All the "excitement" from yesterday.

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[RiverEndRick]

Whoscored Player ratings according to each player's contribution:

Gunn 6.7
Pinto 7.1
Zimmerman 7.1
Klose 7.4
Steipermann 7.5
Trybull 7.8
Reed 6.6
Watkins 6.4
Murphy 6.7
Jerome 7.2

Jerome does more than many people see, perhaps.

 

[carrowcanario]

Murphy crossing the ball into the penalty box and NOT one of our players in there!
It's a theme that continues week after week!
It's awful to watch!

That raises 2 issues, firstly, Why was no one in the box, but secondly and more importantly if there''s no one in the box then he's not passing it he's just hitting the ball and giving it away / hoping, which is Sunday league standard at best. He should be looking up and passing it to a team mate or into space for a team mate to run onto, if there's not a team mate there then he needs to do something other than just kick the ball away i.e. retain it or go for goal himself. I suspect FARKE with his emphasis on possession football would want him to retain it even if that means passing backwards and starting again. But you've got to remember Murphy doesn't get stick just because he's a Murphy. His brother doesn't seem to be getting much game time a Newcastle, again he was another Norwich player who was rated much higher by a lot of Norwich fans than his performances deserved . Selling Jacob Murphy is probably financially one of the best bits of business we did over the summer and if we can move Josh on for a similar over inflated amount then that will be another result.

 

[carrowcanario]

Whoscored Player ratings according to each player's contribution:

Gunn 6.7
Pinto 7.1
Zimmerman 7.1
Klose 7.4
Steipermann 7.5
Trybull 7.8
Reed 6.6
Watkins 6.4
Murphy 6.7
Jerome 7.2

Jerome does more than many people see, perhaps.

Interesting that Farke decided to sub pretty much all his attack focused players other than Jerome. Whilst Jerome didn't have his greatest game he's never going to be a fans favorite, because most fans seem to be of the view that strikers are only on the pitch to score and if they don't score then they're no good. Jerome's game is about a lot more than just scoring, just a brief look at the highlights shows his value other than scoring In the first half he set up Vrancic & Stepiermann both who should have scored. In the second half Jerome was in a great position for a tap in if only Murphy had been able to make the necessary pass.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

Interesting that Farke decided to sub pretty much all his attack focused players other than Jerome. Whilst Jerome didn't have his greatest game he's never going to be a fans favorite, because most fans seem to be of the view that strikers are only on the pitch to score and if they don't score then they're no good. Jerome's game is about a lot more than just scoring, just a brief look at the highlights shows his value other than scoring In the first half he set up Vrancic & Stepiermann both who should have scored. In the second half Jerome was in a great position for a tap in if only Murphy had been able to make the necessary pass.

Get well soon, Nelson

 

[carrowcanario]

Get well soon, Nelson

And there was I hoping that we could have a less superficial discussion about football than normal.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

And there was I hoping that we could have a less superficial discussion about football than normal.

I agree that Jerome can't do it on his own and had no support from Murphy or Watkins on the flanks yesterday, but he looped a tame header at the keeper and sent at least one shot wide when well placed. If you're going to stick to a single striker up top, it has to be one who has hold up play, can run the channels and drag people out of position - but also someone who knows where the onion bag is and hasn't lost the art of finding it every now and again.
Speculation, I know, but dare I suggest that had Oliveira been fit yesterday, we would have nicked that game and the points. Pure gut-feel, but I do believe that.

 

[carrowcanario]

I agree that Jerome can't do it on his own and had no support from Murphy or Watkins on the flanks yesterday, but he looped a tame header at the keeper and sent at least one shot wide when well placed. If you're going to stick to a single striker up top, it has to be one who has hold up play, can run the channels and drag people out of position - but also someone who knows where the onion bag is and hasn't lost the art of finding it every now and again.
Speculation, I know, but dare I suggest that had Oliveira been fit yesterday, we would have nicked that game and the points. Pure gut-feel, but I do believe that.

Bristol City have a decent defence this season and are the second highest scoring team in the league. We did very well to prevent them from scoring, 4 or 5 weeks ago they would have put 3 or 4 past us. Clearly Farke deployed the tactics he felt appropriate and that was to play one up front, which certainly isn't where Oliveira strengths lie, so I suspect even if Oliveira was fit he would have started with Jerome. Yes maybe Jerome should have done better with the first shot of the game, however the header was no where near simple and a lot of PL strikers would have struggle to do better, the ball was floated in, slightly behind him and too high, so he was leaning back whilst in the air and the ball had very little pace for him to work with, I can't see how its possible to get a powerful header out of those set of circumstances. Of course he did put the ball in the net, but unfortunately was offside, so he certainly knows where the net is. I agree about the qualities that you need from a striker if you are going to play one up front and Jerome has these. The chances he provided for Vrancic & Stepiermann are the sort of chances that you would expect a loan striker to create, its not Jerome's fault they both missed. But yet again Jerome is getting stick because we didn't score, but the point is it's not just down to the striker and there were 3 other attacking focus players on the pitch that where equally responsible for us not scoring and maybe if they had played a bit better Jerome would have had more or better opportunities. Clearly from the subs Farke made he seems to be of a similar view to me, in that Jerome was doing his job but others weren't doing theirs. Maybe it's time we dropped Murphy for a few games and gave someone else a go.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

the point is it's not just down to the striker and there were 3 other attacking focus players on the pitch that where equally responsible for us not scoring and maybe if they had played a bit better Jerome would have had more or better opportunities.

Can't disagree with this. Nett result is, we miss Pritchard up top exactly like we missed Klose at the back. But no point bleating about it, he can't play so others should be expected to step up.
Yesterday, none of Murphy, Watkins or Vrancic did that.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

It's the Heskey for England argument, worked tirelessly for the side but rarely scored.

If you have 2 up front then that can work well but a lone striker should be expected to score.

 

[carrowcanario]

It's the Heskey for England argument, worked tirelessly for the side but rarely scored.

If you have 2 up front then that can work well but a lone striker should be expected to score.

Sorry but I see it the other way round. If you play with a lone striker then his main responsibility is to hold up the ball to allow midfielders to join the attack and score, not necessarily to score himself. If you play 2 strikers up front then you would expect them to work together so that one of them scores. For me there's a big difference between a lone striker, a target man, centre forward. The definition of a centre forward is = An out and out striker whose only job is to wait for other players to pass the ball to them and then score. This isn't the role Farke or indeed AN use(d) Jerome in.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Sorry but I see it the other way round. If you play with a lone striker then his main responsibility is to hold up the ball to allow midfielders to join the attack and score, not necessarily to score himself. If you play 2 strikers up front then you would expect them to work together so that one of them scores.

The wingers are meant to supply from a wide position the central midfielders are supposed to keep the ball ticking over win back possession and feed the wingers or striker.
The lone striker's main role is to get on the end of crosses through balls and STRIKE as well as hold up the ball then move into a goalscoring position.

You are only defending Jerome's impotency because you instist he's our best striker so during our goal drought you argue that scoring goals isn't his job.

Most successful sides have a striker that provides s majority of the goals with midfielders chipping in, to argue otherwise is foolhardy.

 

[Walsh.i.am]

You are only defending Jerome's impotency because you instist he's our best striker so during our goal drought you argue that scoring goals isn't his job.

Most successful sides have a striker that provides s majority of the goals with midfielders chipping in, to argue otherwise is foolhardy.

Have to agree with this - in recent memory, just 2 or 3 years ago Jerome got 20 ish.
Before him Grant Holt did likewise. Three years on the spin.
A team (and I know we're still 'work in progress') needs a striker who can score as well as assist just like it needs a 'keeper and CBs who can defend solidly. Integral to any success.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

Have to agree with this - in recent memory, just 2 or 3 years ago Jerome got 20 ish.
Before him Grant Holt did likewise. Three years on the spin.
A team (and I know we're still 'work in progress') needs a striker who can score as well as assist just like it needs a 'keeper and CBs who can defend solidly. Integral to any success.

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[carrowcanario]

The wingers are meant to supply from a wide position the central midfielders are supposed to keep the ball ticking over win back possession and feed the wingers or striker. The lone striker's main role is to get on the end of crosses through balls and STRIKE as well as hold up the ball then move into a goalscoring position. You are only defending Jerome's impotency because you instist he's our best striker so during our goal drought you argue that scoring goals isn't his job. Most successful sides have a striker that provides s majority of the goals with midfielders chipping in, to argue otherwise is foolhardy.

Well that may be your view but that is not generally whats expected in the modern game from a loan striker. Not a fan of Wikipedia but

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forward_(association_football)

The role of the player who plays furthest up the field changes depending on the formation you playing. There is no such thing as a defined role for a lone striker, but generally in modern day football the term is used to cover a variety of roles. What you describe as a lone strikers role is an old fashioned centre forward and you are right in your assertion that the many role of a centre forward is to score goals, but that is not the role Jerome is being asked to play. There was an error in my previous post, which I've corrected.

 

[carrowcanario]

Have to agree with this - in recent memory, just 2 or 3 years ago Jerome got 20 ish.
Before him Grant Holt did likewise. Three years on the spin.
A team (and I know we're still 'work in progress') needs a striker who can score as well as assist just like it needs a 'keeper and CBs who can defend solidly. Integral to any success.

The role Grant Holt played and the role Jerome is being asked to play is very different as are the formations, the team tactics, the mangers / coaches philospophy. If you believe that Jerome is being to asked to play like Holt did than I can understand why you are disappointed each week. Jerome is not a Holt clone, nor is he being asked to be.

 

[DUNCAN DONUTS]

The role Grant Holt played and the role Jerome is being asked to play is very different as are the formations, the team tactics, the mangers / coaches philospophy. If you believe that Jerome is being to asked to play like Holt did than I can understand why you are disappointed each week. Jerome is not a Holt clone, nor is he being asked to be.

So you don't think Jerome is supposed to be our main goal threat as a lone striker ?

Who is then ?

 

[carrowcanario]

So you don't think Jerome is supposed to be our main goal threat as a lone striker ?

Who is then ?

Ok I'll try and explain it once more. Farke like AN before him seems to want to mainly play Jerome up front as a lone striker, as this allows him to use the type of formations he prefers.

So as Wikipedia says "the term "target man" is often used to describe a particular type of striker whose main role is to win high balls in the air and create chances for other members of the team (not necessarily scoring many goals themselves)".

Now I don't know Farke's mind (or AN's) but the way they both used Jerome suggests to me that yes they'd like him to score, but equally they see his role as providing opportunities for midfielders. Jerome did this pretty well last season judging not only by the number of goals he scored, but also by the number of assists, which was significantly higher than most of the other strikers in the top 10 scorers list.

He's clear doing what he's being asked to do as he keeps getting selected / not subbed. Farke has also implied this is the case in a number of interviews he's given this season.