Off Topic Back to School
- Thread starter Steven Toast
- Start date
-
Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
-
I honestly have no idea what this means - but well done for giving the same education to all. Do the more gifted kids get held back by this approach??
(Not having a go, just don’t understand)
other than my education (**** school on a **** east Hull council estate!) the only experience I have of modern education is my kids going Pocklington School, they are superb. But, I don’t expect they get the challenged children you mention.
No, because there's no ceiling on what the more able kids can achieve. At the top end, you're looking at a more in depth mastery approach. So the concepts they tackle will be more catered to their learning ability. A child who is working towards expectations might not give you the answer to the same problem, but that doesn't mean they couldn't answer a problem tailored to their specific learning needs. So they can still demonstrate the skills of, say, problem solving, but in their own way. It wouldn't be fair on a child who cannot access the curriculum for a certain reason to expect them to be able to do the things greater depth children could, but it doesn't mean that they can't do something similar at a level they are more suited to. The cartoon below shows this perfectly.
You must log in or register to see images
I wouldn't place a ceiling on the higher ability children any more than I would the lower ability ones, each has their own strengths and weaknesses that they encounter in their learning. When considering pitching work to a class, I find it more helpful to think of it as depth of knowledge, rather than breadth of knowledge. Knowing all the times tables by rote up to 12 x 12 is great, but do they understand why 6 x 9 = 54? If they don't, what's the point in knowing it? Can they prove it? Can they show me a real life example where they might come across a problem? For lower ability children, it might that they show me how they know three goes into nine three times, using resources or drawings.
On the caning thing I saw, if you have to physically harm a child in order for them to follow you, you aren't very good at being an adult. Respect in children is born out of admiration, not out of fear. If you have to frighten a mind more underdeveloped than yours in order for it to follow instructions, ****ing quit whatever it is your doing, paint yourself silver and go and be a robot on the South Bank of the Thames. That applies to children and animals, by the way.
You can see why so many lefties who are against private education and think everyone else should be happy with a one size fits all system decide that when it comes to their own kids they are more important than their principles and send them to fee paying schools.
Well with all due respect, schools will do what they think is best for the children's education. We're the experts in education, not the parents. We see the evidence of the progress first hand. To parents and outsiders, it might seem rudimentary, but the progress children have made under the system is a hell of a lot more than previous systems where children were singled out because of their ability.
There's nothing wrong with private education, some of the best schools in the country are private. But you'll find they employ similar techniques because that's the new consensus.
Obviously my education wasn't good enough, like SW3 i didn't really understand your first reply and now you're even further away form getting your point across to me.
Basically, no one is allowed to be better than anyone else because that is elitist and so unfair...
Basically, all children are exposed to the same material. The difference is in the expectation of what they produce. The support for lower ability children may come from a number of places, such as group work, simplified tasks or resources. But they're still getting the same learning and the lesson is designed in a way that will engage the lower children but then progress more in depth and allow higher ability children to be challenged.
Still using lots of fluffy talk.
Lets make this simpler (for me) Maths class, you've spent 30 minutes explaining adding up numbers in their hundreds, ie 234+456+123.
You hand out a paper with 10 sums to add up in the remaining 10 minutes of class time, the top 10 will finish it alone in a minute or two and now be bored, the middle 10 will by and large manage with some small teacher input, the bottom 10 can't do it each one is asking for help, the top 10 are now talking among themselfs disturbing some of the middle 10. Serious question how do you manage?
But that's not how I'd do it.
First, my input wouldn't be thirty minutes long. Kids can't sit still for that long, not six year olds anyway (the year group I teach). Even at Year 6 you want them working within ten minutes of the lesson starting.
So, talk, model (show them what to do), starter task. Then more talking, model, main task.
Using your example, I'd teach the exact same thing to all the children. But, the task I give would use the same concepts, in your case adding three digit numbers, but I'd change the questions to suit each ability group. So the first group might have two digit numbers and then a couple of three digit numbers questions (because they're working TOWARD year group expectation, I wouldn't expect them to be able to do it right away, they need a simpler concept to apply first). The next group might have a sheet with all three digit number addition questions, but they might not have tens carrying over (111+222 for example) in all the questions, maybe a couple at the end. They would then have a challenge or a couple of problems to do to see if they an apply their skill. They've met the objective, which was to add three digit numbers. The final group would have harder versions and then a few problems and other challenges to complete.
In the time it's taken the lower ability children to answer their simpler problems, the higher ability children have done the sheet, stuck it in and are doing the greater depth challenges. Have all the children met my expectations? Yes. Have all the children at expected or above met the learning objective? Yes. Have the children working below year group expectations completed their work? Yes. Has the most of if not the whole class made progress? Yes.
It's quite difficult to explain to somebody who isn't a teacher, but the TLDR is:
The actual bit I teach is the same for all the kids. The work they do is differentiated but based on the same subject. Each achieve progress in their own way.
I taught Chemistry to Pharmacy students at University and we were told the maximum attention span of students is about 15 minutes. You need to break up your lecture/presentation at about this time and vary things or students lose focus.
Our lesson plans had:
All children will be able to ...
Most children will be able to ...
Some children will be able to ...
That showed how each child would be able to access the lesson and how each child's needs would be catered for.
I did not admire the headteacher who caned me. I regarded him as a complete fool. I admired the teachers who inspired me. I had a particular respect for an RE teacher who not only manged to make RE interesting and relevant but also ran the cross country team. It was the fact that he came out and ran with us that was most impressive. He challenged us to beat him without ever saying it. He pushed us further than we thought we could go. That was real teaching and what I aspired to achieve myself.
You are making the mistake of assuming that all of the kids do the same exercises. It was like that when I was at school but it isn't now.
Were you punished wrongly or rightly? I was caned ,or in Scotland given the tawse, on a regular basis for unruly behaviour.It was a means of discipline which I deserved.I think the schools lost a lot of control when they withdrew corporal punishment?
Oh yes, by the regime of the day I had to be caned or expelled. I thoroughly deserved punishment and accepted it without complaint. You only went to the head's office for punishment. He wasn't seen as a person. He was just a caricature in the style of Jimmy Edwards in Whacko. Now the name of that educational comedy tells you a lot.
You must log in or register to see images
Caning was part of school life. It was easy and quick. Oh, and it hurt like hell. On Monday mornings the head would announce a list of names in assembly who were to go to his room for caning immediately afterwards. You didn't have to do much to get on that list.
Back in the day I/we got the cane on a regular basis. Even for spelling mistakes. If you failed to learn the ten or so words given to you for your homework you got a stroke of the cane across your hands for every one you got wrong.
Teachers used to go to the pub at dinner time and often came back in class clutching a pint glass of bitter.
i was once knocked unconscious in metal work when I was 15 by the teacher, thumped full in the face, for putting an old penny in the forge and leaving it next to the class thief to sneak in his pocket
Never did me any harm.
I've been a psychopath for years, on my mothers side.
The teachers up here were a bit more street wise....You were asked to accompany them to the stationary cupboard along the corridor and upon arrival and with the door closed,you were given a clip.That was wrong on so many levels and was clearly an abuse of position,however,I really did drive some teachers up the wall.
This,according to my Father,was also due to my Mothers side
Sounds like a lot of you were repeat offenders. Which just goes to show how crap corporal punishment is as a deterrent.