Assem Allam

[Robo]

I have said it loads of times on here but I just don't get why if anyone questions anything the Allams do we are somehow hating them and not appreciating that they saved the club. I can only assume that those that think the Allams cannot be criticised and can do no wrong just because they have money do not know how to think for themselves. Yes they own the club but the supporters play a big part in the club as well. They need our money to be able to survive, they provide a product and we have every right to question how that product is produced.

I suspect now this thread will be taken over by the "how dare you criticize" mob and will just not be worth reading because anyone who had a different point of view to you are just ridiculed and called an idiot or worse.

The only thing your money provides is a seat for you to sit on.
Why start this crap up again?
It is obvious that the OP does not think a lot of the owners as he has made it obvious many a time as have you.
I am not swayed either way as yet until I get the FULL account from ALL sides
If I were the Allam's I would just walk away because you lot don't deserve a football club as all you do is moan, whether it be about players,managers supporters,food. FFS if I wasn't a stronger person I would be thinking of topping myself with all the negativity on here
Wait until Wednesday or whenever and see what transpires then when they appoint Sir Alex some of you will no doubt bitch about it

 

[Dr.Stanley O'Google, HCFC]

Sir Alex? Sir Alex Ferguson? SAF himself? Can I get good odds?

 

[Robo]

Sir Alex? Sir Alex Ferguson? SAF himself? Can I get good odds?

Ask the rumor merchants on here as they believe everything they hear or imagine they hear

 

[DJBlackandamberarmy(No4)]

The only thing your money provides is a seat for you to sit on.
Why start this crap up again?
It is obvious that the OP does not think a lot of the owners as he has made it obvious many a time as have you.
I am not swayed either way as yet until I get the FULL account from ALL sides
If I were the Allam's I would just walk away because you lot don't deserve a football club as all you do is moan, whether it be about players,managers supporters,food. FFS if I wasn't a stronger person I would be thinking of topping myself with all the negativity on here
Wait until Wednesday or whenever and see what transpires then when they appoint Sir Alex some of you will no doubt bitch about it

with good reason, hes a massive ****

 

[Robo]

with good reason, hes a massive ****

See and it ain't even Wednesday yet

 

[PLT]

No you haven't shared facts! You've shared unsubstantiated gossip and labelled it fact. I know having spoken to some of them that the local media believe the decision to sack Pearson and Barmby was the correct and only course of action for the Allams to take but due to the fact that the Allams are protecting the professional reputations of bothit remains ounsubstantiated so they can't release it into the public domain. It's hillarious reading some of the utter crap posted on here that makes out as though the Allams are bumbling morons with no idea how to run a business, hands up all of those on here with a £400 million fortune! Do you think they knew anything about marine generators when they took that business over? You learn as you go making mistakes along the way but as long as you employ sound business principles and learn from those mistakes you have a chance of succeeding the way they do.They've spent a year learning about the club, studying where it is unnecessarily hemorrhaging money(in their opinion) and addressed it, they continue to prop the club up to the tune of £7 million a year we have an enormous wage bill that is unsustainable without them, I think all of these things require respect, not the moronic and offensive insinuations some posters on here delight in spreading.

As I keep saying, I can't force anyone to believe me. If your pre-determined views are that important that you'll tell yourself I made this all up to suit some sort of obsessive anti-Allam agenda then fine, but the reality is I know this conversation took place. How on Earth do you expect me to 'substantiate' a conversation? It's not like I can give references and citations it's a conversation ffs. I'm just telling you what's been said.

The thing people seem to be missing is that most Allam sceptics (myself included) didn't have a problem with them all along. We aren't passionately biased against them personally, we've just observed what's going on at the club lately and the way they are running the club and are commenting on what we see. We don't get to see the full story (and the worst stuff they have done is not in the public domain yet) but I've been told a small amount of this. There have been countless new stories come out of the club lately which all amount to willy-nilly cost-cutting around the club, yet every time the same people say the same thing afterwards, almost as if they are the ones with the pre-decided views who won't budge their stance based on what happens...

Agreed. If I was Allam I would be keeping quite about all this unless it was with the people directly involved in the process. These people wouldn't be telling Hull City fans anything about what went on.

I'm not certain but I don't think it was meant to be confidential. This guy isn't an employee of the club he's just part of a fan group and they were discussing what the fans think of the club primarily. If you wanted to keep something a secret in a business way you wouldn't tell someone you have no authority over and expect him to not share it with the others involved would you?

Oh well, what a load of bollocks that was! Are you basing your daft post on the 'fact' that a massively experienced accountant and businessman does not understand the bascic principals of 'odds'? Everything else becomes tosh on that simple mistake - try again, but harder next time.

That part of the post didn't add anything to my point, why would I have put it in there at the risk of making it all sound ridiculous if it wasn't true? That is from Mr Allam's own mouth - he doesn't gamble so he doesn't understand odds.

What has wanting to know what the fans think got to do with what the Allams are going to do? They could cloak their intentions if they wanted to sound people out.

If they are so desperate to please the fans why do what they did?

If I owned Hull City and knew what was going on inside the club I would not be making my decisions, or at least taking them into account, based on fans views when they don't know much about what's going on behind the scenes.

You're right, I don't expect him to use these views gathered to make big decisions, but he likes to know what people think of him and his running of the club and that's the exact reason this meeting took place.

 

[DMD]

What fan group is it?

The official supporters club have never been representative of the bulk of fans. In fact some of the decisions that have come out of the OSC have pissed off a lot of people. What was the one the came from the Cott branch?

The Allam's need far better advice than that to gauge fans feelings.

 

[PLT]

What fan group is it?

The official supporters club have never been representative of the bulk of fans. In fact some of the decisions that have come out of the OSC have pissed off a lot of people. What was the one the came from the Cott branch?

The Allam's need far better advice than that to gauge fans feelings.

It is indeed the OSC. What do you mean by the bold part? What decisions? I ask because they don't often have the power to really make decisions that affect fans, they haven't had a lot of help from the club recently which has made things difficult for them.

 

[DMD]

It is indeed the OSC. What do you mean by the bold part? What decisions? I ask because they don't often have the power to really make decisions that affect fans, they haven't had a lot of help from the club recently which has made things difficult for them.

I can't recall what it was for, there was a vote at the Cott branch that gave credence to something no other selection of fans would, possibly the fat **** introducing the stands, but I'll stand corrected.

In any event it's academic, the point is the OSC are an alien group to by far the majority of fans and are a poor barometer for the mood of fans if that's what these discussions are for. The only people I know that joined did it to get a discount in the store.

 

[PeterGriffin]

As I keep saying, I can't force anyone to believe me. If your pre-determined views are that important that you'll tell yourself I made this all up to suit some sort of obsessive anti-Allam agenda then fine, but the reality is I know this conversation took place. How on Earth do you expect me to 'substantiate' a conversation? It's not like I can give references and citations it's a conversation ffs. I'm just telling you what's been said.

The thing people seem to be missing is that most Allam sceptics (myself included) didn't have a problem with them all along. We aren't passionately biased against them personally, we've just observed what's going on at the club lately and the way they are running the club and are commenting on what we see. We don't get to see the full story (and the worst stuff they have done is not in the public domain yet) but I've been told a small amount of this. There have been countless new stories come out of the club lately which all amount to willy-nilly cost-cutting around the club, yet every time the same people say the same thing afterwards, almost as if they are the ones with the pre-decided views who won't budge their stance based on what happens...

Sorry but that's rubbish, how are my views pre determined? re read my post and please explain? I like you have unsubstantiated evidence to support my stance, I don't use it to bash Pearson and Barmby with as it is unsubstantiated and until such time that it is concrete it would be unfair to do so. Unless you have an intimate understanding of the financial position of the football club and the basis of the decisions taken (whether they appear petty or not) you are in no position to make some of the comments that you do. Also the elements of my post that could enduce a pre determined view of the Allams are the only ones we can take as fact ie they put in a load of cash to save the club and continue to do so to keep it going in the short term, nobody else was or still is willing to do so, perhaps i'm wrong in thinking that deserves some appreciation and perhaps a show of support, i'll leave you to decide how you feel about that but please don't take to the intellectual high ground suggesting that I and others who support the Allams in their attempts to stabalise our football club are incapable of forming an opinion soley because we choose to do so based on actual FACTS rather than i've been told by my mates post man that....... type facts.

 

[PLT]

Sorry but that's rubbish, how are my views pre determined? re read my post and please explain? I like you have unsubstantiated evidence to support my stance, I don't use it to bash Pearson and Barmby with as it is unsubstantiated and until such time that it is concrete it would be unfair to do so. Unless you have an intimate understanding of the financial position of the football club and the basis of the decisions taken (whether they appear petty or not) you are in no position to make some of the comments that you do. Also the elements of my post that could enduce a pre determined view of the Allams are the only ones we can take as fact ie they put in a load of cash to save the club and continue to do so to keep it going in the short term, nobody else was or still is willing to do so, perhaps i'm wrong in thinking that deserves some appreciation and perhaps a show of support, i'll leave you to decide how you feel about that but please don't take to the intellectual high ground suggesting that I and others who support the Allams in their attempts to stabalise our football club are incapable of forming an opinion soley because we choose to do so based on actual FACTS rather than i've been told by my mates post man that....... type facts.

We're not talking about Pearson and Barmby, it's been done to death. Everyone knows my view on that. I'm not sure what you're getting at by the bold part, but are you saying its okay to pre-determine your views because they put a lot of money into the club? What I meant by pre-determined was that as soon as you saw the thread with my name you'd probably decided it was going to be wrong and that I'd made it up, because it suits you to not change your stance. I don't know you so that could be bollocks, but it seems the best explanation for you to suggest that I made it all up.

 

[DMD]

I think all of us appreciate the fact that the Allam's effectively saved our Club. Where we seem to differ is how long we thank them for it and what allowances we make for them now.

A paraphrase from another board, but if you save a woman from drowning, you don't get carte blanche to abuse her into the future, there comes a point where you draw a line and reassess the position from where you are.

There are several reasons for putting money into a football club and they're not mutually exclusive. It could be as a fan of the club, a fan of the area, a business plan or a need to be loved and liked. The latter one is doomed to failure unless you've an excellent PR department managing fans expectations.

The problem is that for better or worse the normal rules of business don't apply to football, and people (especially around here) can only be borrowed with money, not bought. What's needed is positive action or signs of action. So far, the regime could be argued to have alienated us from the local media, local council, PFA and LMA as well as growing sections of fans. The PR side of things has been very lacking and poor when it arrived.

I'm on the fence and willing to give them a fair shout, but I can more than see why some people are concerned.

 

[PLT]

I can't recall what it was for, there was a vote at the Cott branch that gave credence to something no other selection of fans would, possibly the fat **** introducing the stands, but I'll stand corrected.

In any event it's academic, the point is the OSC are an alien group to by far the majority of fans and are a poor barometer for the mood of fans if that's what these discussions are for. The only people I know that joined did it to get a discount in the store.

You're probably right, I think that exact vote did take place but what's the problem? For what it's worth I agree that the stands thing isn't that bad, if anyone disagrees they can give ther view to the club as well just as the OSC did. They're only giving their opinion.

I know those in charge of the OSC and they are all pretty decent, rational City fans who understand football well and have the club's interests at heart. They try to represent fans whilst providing a small service, if you don't think they do that well enough or have any suggestions, let them (or me) know and it can easily be fed back to them to try and change it. I think they do a decent job, but feedback will be welcome I'm sure.

 

[Stuart Blampey]

The good news is that tomorrow could be the start of a new era when the Allams start to make the right decisions and manage the club in a way that enthuses the fans (instead of alienating them).

Everyone wants them to do well and make the right decisions- it's just that the penny has to drop with them about how they manage the club.

We don't support a balance sheet- we support a football club.

 

[Stuart Blampey]

"For what it's worth I agree that the stands thing isn't that bad,"

Have to disagree.

It makes us a laughing stock- it should stop immediately.

 

[DMD]

You're probably right, I think that exact vote did take place but what's the problem? For what it's worth I agree that the stands thing isn't that bad, if anyone disagrees they can give ther view to the club as well just as the OSC did. They're only giving their opinion.

I know those in charge of the OSC and they are all pretty decent, rational City fans who understand football well and have the club's interests at heart. They try to represent fans whilst providing a small service, if you don't think they do that well enough or have any suggestions, let them (or me) know and it can easily be fed back to them to try and change it. I think they do a decent job, but feedback will be welcome I'm sure.

My problem is that they don't represent the majority of fans, as well meaning as they may be. If I have a view, I'm quite happy to voice it myself, especially if the other option is to pass it to a stranger representing a group that doesn't represent my version of the Club.

By way of example, you don't see much bad with the stands thing!! You are the very first person I've heard say that. When it leaked out that the decision was supported by one branch of the OSC, people doubted it and assumed it was an excuse. It's one of the few things that people don't argue about because it is (almost) universally hated by most fans along with some other cheesy bits of the pre-match stuff.

I tell you what, let's test the process. My suggestion is that the OSC tell Mr Allam that it has been pointed out they don't represent the bulk of City fans.
Previously we had a fans liaison group, although the membership of that panel was subject to some debate, but can you ask Mr Allam if this group could be resumed so that he got a better representation of fans views?

 

[petersaxton]

"from what knowledge base did you feel free to post such a strong statement; it does not give much else much credibility."

Wiki says: "Born in Egypt in 1940, Allam fled to the UK from Gamel Abdel Nasser's regime in Egypt in 1968. He studied economics at the University of Hull before working as an accountant at Tempest Diesel. In 1981 he used a loan to begin a buy-out of the company"

If he did a degree in economics he would appear that he wasn't an accountant for the first 31 years of his life nor the last 31 years. That's 62 years in total he wasn't an accountant. That means he was an accountant for 10 years of his life. I wouldn't describe him as a "massively experienced accountant".

 

[PeterGriffin]

We're not talking about Pearson and Barmby, it's been done to death. Everyone knows my view on that. I'm not sure what you're getting at by the bold part, but are you saying its okay to pre-determine your views because they put a lot of money into the club? What I meant by pre-determined was that as soon as you saw the thread with my name you'd probably decided it was going to be wrong and that I'd made it up, because it suits you to not change your stance. I don't know you so that could be bollocks, but it seems the best explanation for you to suggest that I made it all up.

The Barmby/Pearson is extremely relevent to the discussion as it is this that has triggered the majority of the, they don't know what they're doing, they're doing it on the cheap jibes. My point was that my understanding is that they both deserved the bullet but the Allams are not willing to publicise the reasons out of professional courtesy, pretty standard in any big organisation when these things happen, i've seen it a fair few times. The bold part was highlighting that you may interprate my views as being pre determined but to me they are the only FACTS that we actually have any substasntiated evidence of. I don't look at your name when you post and think this is goint to be a load of crap, you have a viewpoint that is different to mine, if people didn't there would be no discussion. What i'm trying to get at is that you hear things, I hear thing they're not all true but the negative rumours are being used as a stick to beat the Allams with. Nobody seems to want to see that without them we are stuffed, I find it hard to be as critical of the people attempting to put right the attrocious mess left by Bartlett and Duffen as some on here do, yes they have made some unpopular decision and i'm sure they will continue to do so but they are making them in the best interests of the football club IMO.

 

[PLT]

My problem is that they don't represent the majority of fans, as well meaning as they may be. If I have a view, I'm quite happy to voice it myself, especially if the other option is to pass it to a stranger representing a group that doesn't represent my version of the Club.

By way of example, you don't see much bad with the stands thing!! You are the very first person I've heard say that. When it leaked out that the decision was supported by one branch of the OSC, people doubted it and assumed it was an excuse. It's one of the few things that people don't argue about because it is (almost) universally hated by most fans along with some other cheesy bits of the pre-match stuff.

I tell you what, let's test the process. My suggestion is that the OSC tell Mr Allam that it has been pointed out they don't represent the bulk of City fans.
Previously we had a fans liaison group, although the membership of that panel was subject to some debate, but can you ask Mr Allam if this group could be resumed so that he got a better representation of fans views?

I know I'm in a minority on the stands thing, but I'm just saying the club make that decision and they know a lot of fans don't like it but some do, and by complete coiincidence, it happened to be a majority of the OSC branch. I don't think it's any cheesier than blowing bubbles out of a machine or singing Delilah. We're all a bit daft in football really aren't we?

I'm not actually involved with the running of the OSC, I just help out for them a bit and I'm close to the people that do do it. At least some of the people who were in the FLC were the same as the OSC, including the person I'm closest to who runs the OSC. I know for a fact they were pissed off that Duffen stopped the FLC as it was a good way to get views across, I think it's been talked about since (resurrecting it I mean) but I'm not sure why it hasn't happened. It was very much an Adam Pearson thing in his first spell with us, so I think if he was still here there'd be a better chance of it happening.

I will ask them what the latest is on an FLC and suggest people want it back (but they already know that), it sounds like the kind of thing Mr Allam would like, but as it hasn't happened yet I wouldn't get my hopes up, I'm certain it will have talked about plenty.

 

[PeterGriffin]

I think all of us appreciate the fact that the Allam's effectively saved our Club. Where we seem to differ is how long we thank them for it and what allowances we make for them now.

A paraphrase from another board, but if you save a woman from drowning, you don't get carte blanche to abuse her into the future, there comes a point where you draw a line and reassess the position from where you are.

There are several reasons for putting money into a football club and they're not mutually exclusive. It could be as a fan of the club, a fan of the area, a business plan or a need to be loved and liked. The latter one is doomed to failure unless you've an excellent PR department managing fans expectations.

The problem is that for better or worse the normal rules of business don't apply to football, and people (especially around here) can only be borrowed with money, not bought. What's needed is positive action or signs of action. So far, the regime could be argued to have alienated us from the local media, local council, PFA and LMA as well as growing sections of fans. The PR side of things has been very lacking and poor when it arrived.

I'm on the fence and willing to give them a fair shout, but I can more than see why some people are concerned.

The normal rules of business should apply to football and they are correct in attempting to introduce them to Hull City. Football will eventually implode, it's not possible for it to continue the way it is, not my opinion, that of Delloitte. If the Allams succeed in what they are attempting to do we will have a head start on many of our rival in being a well structured cost effective business that can survive the impending mess that will be left when the money men begin to withdraw their funding.