Assem Allam on meeting with supporters re name change.

[petersaxton]

The point that does not seem to be made is that if the dinosaurs at the council were to deal with the club in a fair and proper manner so that both parties could have progressed in their talks would have alleviated all this nonsense.

The club could have bought the KC at a fair price and the club could have done what they wanted to do in the first place and all this nastiness would not have been IMO necessary, some will say that AA would have then sold it all for a profit and that we would have had no ground to play in but surely covenants could have been put in place to counteract this.

I feel that the way out is to use our voice against the dinosaurs at the council instead of the man that bailed us out to the tune of £66 million pounds.

I did see that someone had come up with a plan for all to win although I can't remember who it was but OLM was going to put it to the committee, this is the sort of support we should be striving for on here instead of tearing at each other as we have been?

Plenty of users have griped about the dinosaurs at the HCC on here, surely they are the enemy not the Allams as they want the same success for the club as we do and it is about time we concentrated on ousting some of these dinosaurs at the council at the next election.

I don't think people at the council could get any sense out of Allam. He seems a total buffoon. Maybe when he was younger and making a success of his business he was different but now he seems to have difficulty talking sense. I am basing this on TV interviews.

 

[Robo]

I don't think people at the council could get any sense out of Allam. He seems a total buffoon. Maybe when he was younger and making a success of his business he was different but now he seems to have difficulty talking sense. I am basing this on TV interviews.

Having met him a few times now I never got the impression that he was nothing but a smart man, I must admit that when I see him on the TV I do not think they are the same person, he has fooled a lot of folks with his public persona.I still think he wants to get back at Geriatric of HCC.

 

[Fez]

People who don't understand for some reason just don't want to believe

[/I]"Posted by originallambrettaman

Fez, trust me, there are no cronies, there are no advisors, this is absolutely a one man dynasty."

People who don't understand for some reason just don't want to believe this. A few people on here have this view of Assem as this massive genius whose planned this all in advance. It irritates me as much as anything that people can't see what a bloody buffoon he is. Even when he openly talks bullshit and embarrasses himself these people say he was doing it all on purpose to make us think he's stupid. **** me. He wants nothing more than for everyone to think he's great. The last impression he wants is for everyone to know his limitations."

__________________________________________________________________________

OLM, I understand that. My thoughts are that Ehab would be out of this if it were up to him, but it isn't, yet. Regardless of his public persona, AA will have confidents and advisors - no matter how abstract he is in their use. It matters not that he is the only man we must convince, if he is the only man to be convinced. His autonomy is his strength and our weakness; other influences must be brought into play.

PLT, what might irritate folk is your off-hand dismissal of anyone with a differing view. I certainly don't, think of AA as some massive genius, but I most definitely do not regard him as a fool and I would suggest it to be a mistake if the campaign group does that. I have read everyone of these posts (not something you usually do before jumping to judgment.) and I have have failed to see anyone suggest he deliberately makes himself look foolish. I have suggested that he (which includes his team) is deliberately vague when drawing the line between business and club name. He deliberately operates in the grey zone of definition as he understands how it frustrates and causes exactly this type of distraction.

If you want to beat this guy then he must be taken on at every level and the sham of cooperation (which needs two participants) needs to be re-defined. We are dealing with a clever, yet arrogant man who thinks nothing of doing one thing while saying the opposite - we need to tell him that in a very public way and we must refuse to work with him until such time as it stops; this is where the FA, PL, national supporter bodies and media need maximum leverage - DO NOT RELY ON INTERNET BOARD'S.

In other words, focus the campaign on his duplicity and insincerity. Make the football world aware of the misdirection and downright lies. Use this as a reason not to participate in consultation as, if the campaign is correct, that is all he needs from us.

 

[Smug in Boots]

That kind of sums up very succinctly how I would imagine attempting to negotiate with Assem Allam would be

This will be my very last post, nothing to do with Remembrance, as I don't want to overstay my 'welcome'.
I thought comments from a complete outsider, who loves football & tradition, might be of some interest.

As I mentioned I've had dealings with Ken Bates although, I have to confirm, not in any football matters. I compared him to Assem Allam and, PLT, among others recognised the comparison.

I've lived in the south of France for years and dealt with many incredibly difficult people including Abramovich and Boris Berezovsky ......... so know what you're up against at Hull.
Bates, as your man seems to be, is a one-man dictatorship who says the most outrageous things, accepts no advice and runs roughshod over promises and agreements.

He's in his 80's but stomps around Monaco, which is wall to wall with the mega-rich and famous, like a wounded bear. He has no friends, that I've seen, and couldn't care less.
In the past he's ridiculed supporters groups & deliberately insulted his own club's fans, banned fellow directors from the boardroom, banned press from the club and sued anyone he felt like, on a whim.

He was called a buffoon by thousands yet won almost every battle. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ken_Bates)
(Ashley, at Newcastle, is another perfect example who keeps winning despite mock funerals, death threats, protests, marches, etc etc etc ...... all totally futile and seen as pathetic by many outsiders.)

IMO, taking on your man 'at all levels' as some of you suggest will further disrupt the club, bring you little real credit or support from outside and ultimately fail.
What he'll do is to string things along to exhaust your energy, patience and funds ............. that's how these people work, believe me.

You'd be better off, again IMO, in saving your time, effort & money and just support your club. Use the cash to produce a massive flag with Hull City AFC on it and pass it round at every match or whatever.
All football supporters know who you are and will soon forget this marketing ploy if you just show your pride in your club and support the players on the pitch.

None of my business but your campaign group is making you all look worse than the owner. Supporters, 'attacking' their own club, in whichever way, never looks totally dignified to those outside that club.
These 'supporters' groups tend to look like a handful of self-important self-anointed 'intellectuals' imagining support from around the world and reporting on their 'progress' while, in reality, being beaten at every turn.

Enjoy your season by whichever name you're called by the marketing department, you know who you are.

 

[DMD]

People who don't understand for some reason just don't want to believe

[/I]"Posted by originallambrettaman

Fez, trust me, there are no cronies, there are no advisors, this is absolutely a one man dynasty."

People who don't understand for some reason just don't want to believe this. A few people on here have this view of Assem as this massive genius whose planned this all in advance. It irritates me as much as anything that people can't see what a bloody buffoon he is. Even when he openly talks bull**** and embarrasses himself these people say he was doing it all on purpose to make us think he's stupid. **** me. He wants nothing more than for everyone to think he's great. The last impression he wants is for everyone to know his limitations."

__________________________________________________________________________

OLM, I understand that. My thoughts are that Ehab would be out of this if it were up to him, but it isn't, yet. Regardless of his public persona, AA will have confidents and advisors - no matter how abstract he is in their use. It matters not that he is the only man we must convince, if he is the only man to be convinced. His autonomy is his strength and our weakness; other influences must be brought into play.

PLT, what might irritate folk is your off-hand dismissal of anyone with a differing view. I certainly don't, think of AA as some massive genius, but I most definitely do not regard him as a fool and I would suggest it to be a mistake if the campaign group does that. I have read everyone of these posts (not something you usually do before jumping to judgment.) and I have have failed to see anyone suggest he deliberately makes himself look foolish. I have suggested that he (which includes his team) is deliberately vague when drawing the line between business and club name. He deliberately operates in the grey zone of definition as he understands how it frustrates and causes exactly this type of distraction.

If you want to beat this guy then he must be taken on at every level and the sham of cooperation (which needs two participants) needs to be re-defined. We are dealing with a clever, yet arrogant man who thinks nothing of doing one thing while saying the opposite - we need to tell him that in a very public way and we must refuse to work with him until such time as it stops; this is where the FA, PL, national supporter bodies and media need maximum leverage - DO NOT RELY ON INTERNET BOARD'S.

In other words, focus the campaign on his duplicity and insincerity. Make the football world aware of the misdirection and downright lies. Use this as a reason not to participate in consultation as, if the campaign is correct, that is all he needs from us.

Fez, I've had good chats with the Leeds fans running the campaign against Bates, and I've had dealings with Mr Allam jnr and senior. Taking them head on is playing their game and in my opinion doomed.

In my opinion, the campaign group has it spot on in their reasoned approach. It accepts Mr Allams position, and tackles it from that perspective with dignity and respect. That encourages others that look into it to take the group seriously, people like the FA and Premier League.

What's needed is an exit strategy that keeps Mr Allams dignity and doesn't look like a climb down. My guess is there'd need to be some barb against the council in it too.

I'm not on the group, but in my opinion, and I suspect it's happening anyway, we need to be approaching Councillors and pushing the MP's involved a bit harder for them to step in as mediators.

One things for sure, anyone that looks into it realises doing nothing simply isn't an option.

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

We have the biggest game of our season coming up, lose and we are in trouble. Any protest or distraction from the "group" will lose it any mass support.

 

[DMD]

We have the biggest game of our season coming up, lose and we are in trouble. Any protest or distraction from the "group" will lose it any mass support.

So far, the protest has been very supportive of the team and even the chairman, so I doubt that would change now.

Even the 19:04 is encouragement to players and raises the atmosphere a bit.

 

[Gawge]

The point that does not seem to be made is that if the dinosaurs at the council were to deal with the club in a fair and proper manner so that both parties could have progressed in their talks would have alleviated all this nonsense.

The club could have bought the KC at a fair price and the club could have done what they wanted to do in the first place and all this nastiness would not have been IMO necessary, some will say that AA would have then sold it all for a profit and that we would have had no ground to play in but surely covenants could have been put in place to counteract this.

We are talking about Allam aren't we?

I salute the council for not gifting a stadium to David Allam Tennant.

 

[Steven Toast]

I feel like I have to ask, what's going to happen when the club does change it's name? It seems like a glaring inevitability that the name is going to change unless something radical happens, so:

a) What can we do that's so radical (within reason) that they won't change the name before early 2014?
And
b) If they go ahead with it no matter what (which is now looking increasingly likely), what's people's stance going to be? I don't think I want to stop going, I've been going to the games for so long now that it'd kind of ruin my Saturday if I didn't get to go watch City. I'm missing the Palace game because, annoyingly, I'm at Hull Royal that day and that's already pissed me off something chronic. That said, I'm so against the name change that I could be driven to Ferriby for a few weeks. So, are people still going to begrudginly go to support the team but protest fully, or are people just going to boycott the club completely?

 

[DMD]

I feel like I have to ask, what's going to happen when the club does change it's name? It seems like a glaring inevitability that the name is going to change unless something radical happens, so:

a) What can we do that's so radical (within reason) that they won't change the name before early 2014?
And
b) If they go ahead with it no matter what (which is now looking increasingly likely), what's people's stance going to be? I don't think I want to stop going, I've been going to the games for so long now that it'd kind of ruin my Saturday if I didn't get to go watch City. I'm missing the Palace game because, annoyingly, I'm at Hull Royal that day and that's already pissed me off something chronic. That said, I'm so against the name change that I could be driven to Ferriby for a few weeks. So, are people still going to begrudginly go to support the team but protest fully, or are people just going to boycott the club completely?

Personally, I doubt very much a boycott would happen. I suspect the challenge will take several fronts, including a look at the legalities.

 

[PLT]

Robo I completely agree he should have been allowed to get the stadium and hate our council as much as you do. I don't think it makes Allam's actions acceptable though. The two things don't need to be related, only Allam has suggested they are which is nonsense.

I wish they'd have let him buy the stadium as his plans were amazing, but I can certainly imagine he was impossible to deal with and probably as bad as the council themselves during those discussions.

 

[Steven Toast]

Personally, I doubt very much a boycott would happen. I suspect the challenge will take several fronts, including a look at the legalities.

Well there are too many indifferents to have a noticeable boycott, but I think doing it at away games would hurt the team morale more than anything. If our club's name does become Hull City Tigers, does that mean we can start a Hull City AFC and enter them into the Northern Counties East League (can ground share with Hall Road Rangers), get Nick Barmby/Deano/Ash in as a management team and work our way up the leagues?

 

[Gawge]

Well there are too many indifferents to have a noticeable boycott, but I think doing it at away games would hurt the team morale more than anything. If our club's name does become Hull City Tigers, does that mean we can start a Hull City AFC and enter them into the Northern Counties East League (can ground share with Hall Road Rangers), get Nick Barmby/Deano/Ash in as a management team and work our way up the leagues?

Away games are surely the worst option? Hurts the team, not Allam.

Dean "his money" Windass.

 

[DMD]

Well there are too many indifferents to have a noticeable boycott, but I think doing it at away games would hurt the team morale more than anything. If our club's name does become Hull City Tigers, does that mean we can start a Hull City AFC and enter them into the Northern Counties East League (can ground share with Hall Road Rangers), get Nick Barmby/Deano/Ash in as a management team and work our way up the leagues?

I know there are some looking into setting up a new team and starting from the bottom. I can see why they'd want to do that, but even if it had the name, it wouldn't be the Hull City AFC would it? Likewise a fair few are looking to Ferriby, but for me the same thing applies.

It's sad that we're where we are, and I think some will be like me, and see this nonsense as one more nail in my football experience and one more negative when I consider if I'm replacing my passes.

 

[StrovolosTiger]

So far, the protest has been very supportive of the team and even the chairman, so I doubt that would change now.

Even the 19:04 is encouragement to players and raises the atmosphere a bit.

I think you have to look at the man involved.

Question: Do you think any amount of protesting, boycotting, marching, etc etc etc is going to affect Assem Allam?

If the answer to that is no, then what's the point of doing it? Instead, concentrate on what CAN make a difference ; what will stop him from doing what he wants to do.

Now, in my view, that would be to look at the laws that govern what can or cannot be done in football and who is responsible for implementing those laws and put pressure on them so that if the name change goes ahead, they are publicly associated with that decision. Also, it would be worth analysing what the legal situation is so that there is n way that the FA can get away with not implementing their own rules and regulations. Having said all that, and that is the best option, in my view, if it boils down to a battle between the Premier League and the FA there is only ever going to be one winner.

 

[DMD]

I think you have to look at the man involved.

Question: Do you think any amount of protesting, boycotting, marching, etc etc etc is going to affect Assem Allam?

If the answer to that is no, then what's the point of doing it? Instead, concentrate on what CAN make a difference ; what will stop him from doing what he wants to do.

Now, in my view, that would be to look at the laws that govern what can or cannot be done in football and who is responsible for implementing those laws and put pressure on them so that if the name change goes ahead, they are publicly associated with that decision. Also, it would be worth analysing what the legal situation is so that there is n way that the FA can get away with not implementing their own rules and regulations. Having said all that, and that is the best option, in my view, if it boils down to a battle between the Premier League and the FA there is only ever going to be one winner.

I think you're right in that protests etc won't make him change his mind, but I do think dignified protest has a place in keeping the issue live, raising the profile and raising awareness of the issues. It's not something that people can grasp with a quick glance.

I agree that the main focus is a more formal objection, but I'd like to think there's a way of angling that to avoid offending Mr Allam.

I think it's worth repeating that the issue is the name change, not the personality pushing for it.

 

[Amin Arrears]

I know there are some looking into setting up a new team and starting from the bottom. I can see why they'd want to do that, but even if it had the name, it wouldn't be the Hull City AFC would it? Likewise a fair few are looking to Ferriby, but for me the same thing applies.

It's sad that we're where we are, and I think some will be like me, and see this nonsense as one more nail in my football experience and one more negative when I consider if I'm replacing my passes.

Bloody ridiculous. Some people need to get a grip of themselves.

 

[DMD]

Bloody ridiculous. Some people need to get a grip of themselves.

If you're on about me thinking hard if I'll replace my pass, I don't like the fact it looks like he takes us for fools and seems to have lied to us, I also see it as a very damaging and backward step, and one I don't want to be associated with. There's plenty of other issues I don't like with the modern game. If I wasn't hooked way back when I was, the experience as it is today wouldn't have got me coming back.

 

[Amin Arrears]

I think it's worth repeating that the issue is the name change, not the personality pushing for it.

But the campaign is already starting to paint him in a bad light and make out he's some sort of antichrist.

Recent statements are calling him a liar, an oath breaker, stupid, irrational. It's easy for people to read those and start to hate the man.

 

[DMD]

But the campaign is already starting to paint him in a bad light and make out he's some sort of antichrist.

Recent statements are calling him a liar, an oath breaker, stupid, irrational. It's easy for people to read those and start to hate the man.

I'll take your word that those comments were made, but there's a decent argument that each one is valid in the context. IF it ends up being about the man himself, and I hope it doesn't, there's only one person driving it there.