Arteta Out Thread.

[BrunelGunner]

They are 30 plus years old been training how to attack all their life, they need to help the team.. If arteta wants them to help the team help in defensive and support the team then they should do it.. Not spit out dummies like babies..

I don't think this is what's happening.

As a coach, if you want to maximise your strengths as a team, you need to understand what will get the best out of each player and how to adapt their strengths to form a fully functioning, balanced team. If you have seen that a style of play isn't working, then unless you can resolve that issue by spending in the market, you need to go back to the drawing board and find a different way.

For the last year or so, Arteta has been trying to play in a way that doesn't suit the players we have and it's quite clear they're not enjoying their football. It's sterile, trying to be too perfectionist and isn't benefiting us.

For example, playing a 31-year old Aubameyang as an auxillary winger and getting him to track back in his own half and do a **** tonne of defensive work - when we all know his strengths are his runs in behind and movement in the opposition box - isn't a smart thing to do. Why should he totally remodel his game when the way we were playing him before was working fine? It's more square pegs in round holes. Yet we persist with it...

There was an excellent thread on Twitter that explains this in more detail.

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[TheBear]

The way we are currently playing only Norwich are worse than us in the league.

We are defensive but still concede goals.

I really want Arteta to succeed but any other big Club would have sacked him by now.

 

[cini65]

Mikel Arteta has lost more Premier League home games in 20 months than Wenger did in his last 6 years as Arsenal manager

 

[Treble]

Mikel Arteta has lost more Premier League home games in 20 months than Wenger did in his last 6 years as Arsenal manager

A lesson in be careful what you wish for

 

[cini65]

A lesson in be careful what you wish for

I doubt anyone regrets Wenger going. He was rubbish and had to go and we were getting worse and worse and had already dropped our of CL with him at the helm. It's just we've replaced him consecutively with even more rubbish.

 

[white_gunner]

I doubt anyone regrets Wenger going.

People who bring up Wenger are usually fans of other clubs that don’t have knowledge of the whole story. He was here 22 years; it was time to move on. The decline started under him in the end. For me it’s about who we hired after; it’s been a mess.

 

[TheBear]

I doubt anyone regrets Wenger going. He was rubbish and had to go and we were getting worse and worse and had already dropped our of CL with him at the helm. It's just we've replaced him consecutively with even more rubbish.

Course he was'nt rubbish he was great. If anything he looks better now in hindsight. Seasons he was highly criticised for now look decent.

But post 2015 I would say yes he was no longer an elite manager.

 

[gooner4ever]

I give Arteta 10 games to turn this around or be sacked and bring in Conte.
We can write off City, so that’s 3 games gone of the 10, with the following 7 games remaining:

home Norwich
away Burnley
home NLD
away Brighton
home C Palace
home A Villa
away Leicester

this takes us up to October, and if we haven’t secured 13 points by then he maybe a gonner,
as that’s a quarter of season played.

we may need to win some of the Carabo crap games just for confidence and to get likes of Auba match fit - he might even score !!!!’

 

[cini65]

Course he was'nt rubbish he was great. If anything he looks better now in hindsight. Seasons he was highly criticised for now look decent.

But post 2015 I would say yes he was no longer an elite manager.

He was great up until a certain point, long before he actually left, but then declined year after year and at the end was entirely rubbish.

13/14 - 7pts off top
14/15 - 12pts off top
15/16 - 10pts off top
16/17 - Second to last season 5th and 1pt off CL, 18pts off top
17/18 - Final season 6th and 12pts off CL, 27pts off the top

If you think that isn't a manager getting worse and worse and who had to go I dunno what you're on. He was great pre-2010. But his last decade was treading water and then drowning as all the better managers overtook him.

 

[Treble]

People who bring up Wenger are usually fans of other clubs that don’t have knowledge of the whole story. He was here 22 years; it was time to move on. The decline started under him in the end. For me it’s about who we hired after; it’s been a mess.

I didn't bring up Wenger, the poster I was replying to did

As a United fan and considering the rivalry of both clubs during Wenger's reign, this fan of another club knows enough. Agree the decline did start under Wenger, but more so when Dein left, and it was his departure more than any other from which Arsenal has never recovered.

 

[Treble]

I doubt anyone regrets Wenger going. He was rubbish and had to go and we were getting worse and worse and had already dropped our of CL with him at the helm. It's just we've replaced him consecutively with even more rubbish.

I don't disagree tbh, but I think Wenger's biggest mistake was placing more emphasis on talent than mindset. The younger players he brought in when he was rebuilding the side 15 or so years ago, who were talented but lacked steel, seems to have set the tone ever since. Whoever the manager is, they need to change that first and foremost. You have some great young players coming through your academy but they don't have much to look up to in that squad in terms of character and desire.

 

[cini65]

I'd fire millions at Leicester for Rodgers at this point. Conte is a pipe dream.

 

[The Ides of March]

The knives have been sharpened, the obituaries have been prepared, the vultures of the mass media have gathered for this mass slaughter .... .. and the script will have to be rewritten!!!!

 

[TheBear]

He was great up until a certain point, long before he actually left, but then declined year after year and at the end was entirely rubbish.

13/14 - 7pts off top
14/15 - 12pts off top
15/16 - 10pts off top
16/17 - Second to last season 5th and 1pt off CL, 18pts off top
17/18 - Final season 6th and 12pts off CL, 27pts off the top

If you think that isn't a manager getting worse and worse and who had to go I dunno what you're on. He was great pre-2010. But his last decade was treading water and then drowning as all the better managers overtook him.

Right - so he was great.

I cant see why any fan would focus on his decline now that he has gone.

 

[cini65]

Right - so he was great.

I cant see why any fan would focus on his decline now that he has gone.

Did you see what I was replying to?

 

[BrunelGunner]

Decided to bump this thread.

How are people feeling about him now?

For me, a lot of the concerns I had about him last year are still prevalent. He's taking too long to learn from his mistakes, isn't good at handling internal conflicts and isn't proving to be particularly flexible/adaptable.

A lot of the underlying statistics and metrics for our performances aren't good, either.

If we finish 7th-8th, will the club sack him? Or will they stick to their guns?

 

[TheBear]

Yeah, problems I thought we had gotten past have re-emerged.

What's clear is he needs EXACT players to play in his system. (And Im not sure he knows to to convert a player to a different role). Take Tomiyasu, Tierney and Partey out - and the team looks completely ****ed.

It's kinda mad that he couldn't make use of Aubameyang, Guendouzi and Saliba. All of which have been tremendous since leaving Arsenal (If Saliba comes back will he even play?!)

He's clearly inexperienced and I do think he will improve as a manager over time but his lack of flexibility is troubling - what if we can't sign the EXACT players he needs in the Summer?

It's a risk keeping him on for sure.

 

[PINKIE]

Decided to bump this thread.

How are people feeling about him now?

For me, a lot of the concerns I had about him last year are still prevalent. He's taking too long to learn from his mistakes, isn't good at handling internal conflicts and isn't proving to be particularly flexible/adaptable.

A lot of the underlying statistics and metrics for our performances aren't good, either.

If we finish 7th-8th, will the club sack him? Or will they stick to their guns?

If you had bumped this thread 3 weeks ago people wouldn't have given this thread the time of day

Bump it after 3 losses on the bounce and of course it looks perfectly feasible

If we'd been told in September that during the run in we'd be 3 points off Top 4 with a game in hand, we'd have bitten your arm off

We are struggling atm because our thread bare squad lacks quality in depth. Jan window was a mistake because we shipped out players that could have done a job now and we missed out on our No1 target. But it shows me that the club will spend and strengthen in the summer

As for Arteta. It's a mixed bag so far. Would Klopp or Pep be doing any better with the players we have at our disposal right now ? I'm not sure.

 

[BrunelGunner]

If you had bumped this thread 3 weeks ago people wouldn't have given this thread the time of day

I disagree. Even throughout the good run we just had, I've always been on the fence about him because I wanted to see how he would do in a critical stage of the season and in full knowledge of the gamble he, and the club, took in not strengthening in January.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not his biggest fan and he's had a lot of things go in his favour to still be Arsenal manager over the past 2.5 years.

He's done nothing to alleviate any of the worries I've had from last year. He isn't learning quick enough.

Would Klopp or Pep be doing any better with the players we have at our disposal right now ? I'm not sure.

I don't know about Pep, but Klopp definitely would. You only need to look at how he built Dortmund and Liverpool to know his capabilities as a manager.

 

[PINKIE]

I disagree. Even throughout the good run we just had, I've always been on the fence about him because I wanted to see how he would do in a critical stage of the season and in full knowledge of the gamble he, and the club, took in not strengthening in January.

I think I've made it pretty clear that I'm not his biggest fan and he's had a lot of things go in his favour to still be Arsenal manager over the past 2.5 years.

He's done nothing to alleviate any of the worries I've had from last year. He isn't learning quick enough.

I don't know about Pep, but Klopp definitely would. You only need to look at how he built Dortmund and Liverpool to know his capabilities as a manager.

Nah, bump this three weeks ago and it would have been laughed off.

Not saying he hasn't got weaknesses, because it's clear he has. And both he and the club took a massive gamble in Jan which hasn't paid off.

Fair to criticise him when he's not getting it right, but you also have to say that we've seen what he can do with this team

For me it's about squad quality and depth. And whilst Klopp has done a brilliant job at Liverpool, I disagree that he would be doing any better with the players currently at our disposal