Arteta Out Thread.

[TheBear]

So 15th in the League. We are failing to create chances, our best players have been invizible in recent weeks. As much as I like Arteta you cant tell me another manager would'nt get better performances out of Aubamayang, Pepe, Lacazette etc..

Almost halfway through the Season, Chelsea up next.. then games against Brighton and West Brom.

Should Arteta go or should the board just back him this January and strengthen the side?

If he goes who do we want to replace Arteta?

Should Wenger come in as a temporary manager and move Arteta back to head coach?

 

[TheBear]

An interesting stat..

In 2018-19 (Unai Emery) Arsenals conversion rate was 22.1% - 1st in the EPL.
In 2020-21 (Arteta) Arsenals conversion rate is 2.9% - 20th in the EPL.

 

[NLDISRED]

The job has come to soon for him. He will be a great coach but he isn't right now and we can't allow him to learn on the job we need a manager ready for now.

 

[NLDISRED]

I think Edu needs to go also. He's part of the problem. Campos formerly of lille is available

 

[TheBear]

I think Edu needs to go also. He's part of the problem. Campos formerly of lille is available

I highly doubt Edu will go though - He's part of the recent restructure.

 

[NLDISRED]

I highly doubt Edu will go though - He's part of the recent restructure.

Then we need to restructure again. Campos is way more proven and established then Edu

 

[Treble]

12 months on, some good posts on here about ppl's concerns...

https://www.not606.com/threads/arteta.380077/

 

[TheBear]

Then we need to restructure again. Campos is way more proven and established then Edu

Raul Saulhelli was about as 'proven' as you get.

 

[TheBear]

12 months on, some good posts on here about ppl's concerns...

https://www.not606.com/threads/arteta.380077/

Interesting that most of us were at least hoping for attacking football and goals.

That's the one thing we really hav'nt gottten under Arteta.

 

[Treble]

Interesting that most of us were at least hoping for attacking football and goals.

That's the one thing we really hav'nt gottten under Arteta.

Fwiw there's something wrong at the heart of Arsenal football club. And as an outsider looking in (certainly one who can at least respect the old rivalry) it's been there for at least 12 years.

I've seen a mentally strong team with the likes of Adams, Viera, Llundberg, Lauren, Toure, Parlour, Ashley, Henry gradually leave and the transition to the mentality of the likes of Fabregas, Flamini, Eboue and it's been there ever since. There were still some of the old guard left like Silva, Bergkamp, Toure, Lauren, Campbell when that transition happened but I remember in that moment exactly that shift in mentality and the lack of focus in the new blood coming through. The old guard that were there became marginalised. I remember Sol Campbell walking out in the middle of the League Cup semi-final iirc and that was the end for him, talk of the new guys in the dressing room disrespecting Wenger, undermining the wisdom of the experienced players, then Toure leave, Silva leave, Pires leave, Henry leave. And what you were left with set the tone of the dressing room and the club for the next decade and up to now.

At the time you had some gems coming in but there was nobody there to turn them into the stalwarts, lion hearts of the past. Players with potential like Rosicky (granted he had his injuries), Walcott, Hleb, Clichy, Sagna, Song who could and should've been the next generation to carry on that mentality. But instead there was a vacuum there without the seasoned professionals to guide them, and something rotting at the centre of it all with players who were either too arrogant or too soft for their own good, like Fabregas, Flamini, Nasri, Eboue (damn good rb but an arsehole).

And you've never recovered since. The players I see coming into Arsenal are clones of the above, and those coming through your youth have no leaders to look up to like those I mentioned right at the start. This isn't about Arteta on his own, it's about the identity of the club. A big part of that is set by the manager but it's also about your player recruitment. Until that changes, this will continue and you'll struggle to compete for the league (fck Top 4 your standard should be the league).

There's no wum in any of this, I may not have all my facts straight, and I don't claim to know your club better than you, but I'm saying it as someone on the outside looking in who knew Arsenal close up and personal, enjoyed and respected the rivalry, many of your players, who's seen enough over the past 20+ years to see the change.

 

[TheBear]

Fwiw there's something wrong at the heart of Arsenal football club. And as an outsider looking in (certainly one who can at least respect the old rivalry) it's been there for at least 12 years.

I've seen a mentally strong team with the likes of Adams, Viera, Llundberg, Lauren, Toure, Parlour, Ashley, Henry gradually leave and the transition to the mentality of the likes of Fabregas, Flamini, Eboue and it's been there ever since. There were still some of the old guard left like Silva, Bergkamp, Toure, Lauren, Campbell when that transition happened but I remember in that moment exactly that shift in mentality and the lack of focus in the new blood coming through. The old guard that were there became marginalised. I remember Sol Campbell walking out in the middle of the League Cup semi-final iirc and that was the end for him, talk of the new guys in the dressing room disrespecting Wenger, undermining the wisdom of the experienced players, then Toure leave, Silva leave, Pires leave, Henry leave. And what you were left with set the tone of the dressing room and the club for the next decade and up to now.

At the time you had some gems coming in but there was nobody there to turn them into the stalwarts, lion hearts of the past. Players with potential like Rosicky (granted he had his injuries), Walcott, Hleb, Clichy, Sagna, Song who could and should've been the next generation to carry on that mentality. But instead there was a vacuum there without the seasoned professionals to guide them, and something rotting at the centre of it all with players who were either too arrogant or too soft for their own good, like Fabregas, Flamini, Nasri, Eboue (damn good rb but an arsehole).

And you've never recovered since. The players I see coming into Arsenal are clones of the above, and those coming through your youth have no leaders to look up to like those I mentioned right at the start. This isn't about Arteta on his own, it's about the identity of the club. A big part of that is set by the manager but it's also about your player recruitment. Until that changes, this will continue and you'll struggle to compete for the league (fck Top 4 your standard should be the league).

There's no wum in any of this, I may not have all my facts straight, and I don't claim to know your club better than you, but I'm saying it as someone on the outside looking in who knew Arsenal close up and personal, enjoyed and respected the rivalry, many of your players, who's seen enough over the past 20+ years to see the change.

Yeah well I agree mostly.

You have to remember George Graham was all about defending - he liked big hardworking players.
Wenger when he started was all about the counter attack - So we already had that defensive base and he added the likes of Henry, Overmars, Vieira etc.. his early sides were deadly in possession.

Around 2006 Wenger changed tactically - it all became about perfect football. Spain & Barca had shown you can win things purely with technical superiority. We went from a team of 6'0+ aplha males to Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Nasri types. This was still highly enjoyable as the team was good enough to constantly play Champions League and was exciting fun to watch - even if we seemed to lack that mentality that the team used to posess.

In his final few Seasons; Wenger seemed lost, he didnt know whever to keep with the attacking style or adapt to some of the more defensive formations that were popular in the league at the time.

Arsenal should have kept with the attacking football mentality that Wenger cultivated. In my opinion we should have tried to get Klopp/Guardiola or even someone like Luis Enrique.
I think Ajax and Barca are good examples of teams who have a footballing identity and try to miantain it. Arsenal need to do the same.

 

[Treble]

Yeah well I agree mostly.

You have to remember George Graham was all about defending - he liked big hardworking players.
Wenger when he started was all about the counter attack - So we already had that defensive base and he added the likes of Henry, Overmars, Vieira etc.. his early sides were deadly in possession.

Around 2006 Wenger changed tactically - it all became about perfect football. Spain & Barca had shown you can win things purely with technical superiority. We went from a team of 6'0+ aplha males to Fabregas, Rosicky, Hleb, Nasri types. This was still highly enjoyable as the team was good enough to constantly play Champions League and was exciting fun to watch - even if we seemed to lack that mentality that the team used to posess.

In his final few Seasons; Wenger seemed lost, he didnt know whever to keep with the attacking style or adapt to some of the more defensive formations that were popular in the league at the time.

Arsenal should have kept with the attacking football mentality that Wenger cultivated. In my opinion we should have tried to get Klopp/Guardiola or even someone like Luis Enrique.
I think Ajax and Barca are good examples of teams who have a footballing identity and try to miantain it. Arsenal need to do the same.

It's no coincidence that this was also coupled with the departure of David Dein. A man who was there through Graham and Wenger's best years. I think Wenger became weaker when Dein left - in terms of the identity of the club, but also the balance of recruiting solid defence players as much as free-flowing attacking ones, as well as the way you were bringing through your youth. Wenger and the club lost direction with Dein's departure imo. Don't get me wrong, pretty much the same thing happened to us when David Gill left. I've got no idea what Kroenke is like but I'd hazard a guess he's nowhere near Dein's level.

 

[TheBear]

It's no coincidence that this was also coupled with the departure of David Dein. A man who was there through Graham and Wenger's best years. I think Wenger became weaker when Dein left - in terms of the identity of the club, but also the balance of recruiting solid defence players as much as free-flowing attacking ones, as well as the way you were bringing through your youth. Wenger and the club lost direction with Dein's departure imo. Don't get me wrong, pretty much the same thing happened to us when David Gill left. I've got no idea what Kroenke is like but I'd hazard a guess he's nowhere near Dein's level.

Agree yeah Dein was a big loss.

I will say Arsenals recent buys have been good. I think Martinelli is potentially World Class, Gabriel is quality, Tierney is quality, Saliba has big potential and Partey is sheer class.

Pepe im not sure about, Willian is garbage..

It's the Xhaka, Elneny, Mustafi era that really ****ed us up signing wise.

 

[Bergkamp10]

Wondered when an Arteta post would come up.. My short answer is I would like to keep him...my thoughts on our club and some of its problems and why I would like to keep him are set out below.

Am not a big writer of articles so bear with me and it is only my opinion and I totally accept other people will see things very differently and could be right. I will say I was a long times supporter of Wenger, he did stay to long and I knew he was at the time, but I felt that he deserved that time for all he had given to the club. I know others will not agree with me.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on here, and have been pleased with a lot of the recent recruitment.. Partey Amazing, Gabriel and Tierney Great Signings and to be fair I had not expected Willian to be so awful. He should have been the premiership proven 2 to 3 year stop gap we needed. Plus we have some great youngsters coming through, I hope that for once we will see more than just one or two of them come through, as a club we havent always been good at developing all of our talent,
We are really suffering from so many appalling decisions over many years in our recruitment. We seem to do Ok in our strikers, but until recently with Gabriel and Tierney our defensive purchases have been totally hopeless, we have totally failed to create a decent defence for many years. And as for the midfield it is a total joke, can anyone point out any decent quality signings we have made there.
Pepe.. he may come good and I hope he does but there is no justification for his enormous fee. When we have at times gone out and paid good money for players, but they have turned out to be totally inadequate. Xhaka, Mustafi, Torriera etc etc.

The club has been heading down hill slowly but surely down hill for 10 + years now. We got ourselves into a awful situation with the farce of Ozil and Sanchez last year of contracts. Losing Sanchez for Mikitarian (who we would have never bought but was better then losing Sanchez a few months later on a free) and then having to pay Ozil a fortune because we couldnt be seen to loose them both.

When you look back at this team and how they were being totally dismantled by the better teams without a fight before Arteta took over, I do now see some signs of a fight. I am encouraged by our signings and hope there will be many more, and a big clear out of all the dead wood, mediocre that we should never have signed. when this is done I hope that Arteta will then have his team playing in an attractive positive way. If not then he would need to go. I would give him another year.

 

[PINKIE]

We need to clear out the dead wood. Too many bang average players on stupid wages. It's going to take a while 2/3 transfer windows at least.

I'm willing to give Arteta that time to at least stamp his own mark on the team. Sacking him now would just bring even more instability to the club.

That said, if we don't start putting some points on the board, he might not be afforded the luxury of time ...

 

[white_gunner]

Sorry was looking for the Arteta In thread

 

[white_gunner]

Too many things wrong at our club. Not sure where to start.

Arteta looks like he has lost the dressing room, so yes, he needs to go (and I’ve said many times it’s inevitable at this point).

The purpose of his sacking will only be so we don’t somehow go down, and won’t really help anything going forward IMO.

the biggest problem comes from the top - kroenke doesn’t care; it’s the one thing you can’t change - actual interest in your club from the owner. This cascades down from the top and we’re left with an accountant as a CEO (vinai), a communications director as director of football (edu), a cone boy as manager (Arteta), a parasite as recruiter (Kia joorabchian), and a Willian.

I don’t think we will get anywhere with kroenke as owner; not because we don’t spend (that’s a myth btw), but because he doesn’t know what the hell he is doing in this sport. Maybe one day he’ll finally get lucky and get some people in that work. But it doesn’t look like any time soon.

TLDR: we are the new Newcastle United. Enjoy it, and hope we don’t get relegated.

 

[TheBear]

Wondered when an Arteta post would come up.. My short answer is I would like to keep him...my thoughts on our club and some of its problems and why I would like to keep him are set out below.

Am not a big writer of articles so bear with me and it is only my opinion and I totally accept other people will see things very differently and could be right. I will say I was a long times supporter of Wenger, he did stay to long and I knew he was at the time, but I felt that he deserved that time for all he had given to the club. I know others will not agree with me.

I agree with a lot of what has been said on here, and have been pleased with a lot of the recent recruitment.. Partey Amazing, Gabriel and Tierney Great Signings and to be fair I had not expected Willian to be so awful. He should have been the premiership proven 2 to 3 year stop gap we needed. Plus we have some great youngsters coming through, I hope that for once we will see more than just one or two of them come through, as a club we havent always been good at developing all of our talent,
We are really suffering from so many appalling decisions over many years in our recruitment. We seem to do Ok in our strikers, but until recently with Gabriel and Tierney our defensive purchases have been totally hopeless, we have totally failed to create a decent defence for many years. And as for the midfield it is a total joke, can anyone point out any decent quality signings we have made there.
Pepe.. he may come good and I hope he does but there is no justification for his enormous fee. When we have at times gone out and paid good money for players, but they have turned out to be totally inadequate. Xhaka, Mustafi, Torriera etc etc.

The club has been heading down hill slowly but surely down hill for 10 + years now. We got ourselves into a awful situation with the farce of Ozil and Sanchez last year of contracts. Losing Sanchez for Mikitarian (who we would have never bought but was better then losing Sanchez a few months later on a free) and then having to pay Ozil a fortune because we couldnt be seen to loose them both.

When you look back at this team and how they were being totally dismantled by the better teams without a fight before Arteta took over, I do now see some signs of a fight. I am encouraged by our signings and hope there will be many more, and a big clear out of all the dead wood, mediocre that we should never have signed. when this is done I hope that Arteta will then have his team playing in an attractive positive way. If not then he would need to go. I would give him another year.

Although I agree in parts - this team is MUCH better than where we are in the league and the manager is at fault for that. Wether it's motivational or tactical.

Aubameyang is amongst the best forwards in the league his goals have completely dried up. Lacazette is clearly playing to a lower standrad under Arteta in fact all our attacking players are struggling.

I feel if a manager finishes in the bottom half of the League thats pretty much sackable at Arsenal. Wenger and Emery were fired for finishing outside the EPL places - Arteta is actually in a relegation fight.

Although I like him and dont want to see him sacked .. performances and results are the worst I can remember at Arsenal.

Tuchel just got fired at PSG for not winning the Champions League. Do you think United, Chelsea, City, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Juventus.. would have kept Arteta at this point?

 

[Bergkamp10]

Although I agree in parts - this team is MUCH better than where we are in the league and the manager is at fault for that. Wether it's motivational or tactical.

Aubameyang is amongst the best forwards in the league his goals have completely dried up. Lacazette is clearly playing to a lower standrad under Arteta in fact all our attacking players are struggling.

I feel if a manager finishes in the bottom half of the League thats pretty much sackable at Arsenal. Wenger and Emery were fired for finishing outside the EPL places - Arteta is actually in a relegation fight.

Although I like him and dont want to see him sacked .. performances and results are the worst I can remember at Arsenal.

Tuchel just got fired at PSG for not winning the Champions League. Do you think United, Chelsea, City, Bayern, Madrid, Barca, Juventus.. would have kept Arteta at this point?

I don't disagree that if he was at the club listed above he would have been sacked... but tbf i don't want to support 1 of them and I do not like the way they sack managers, although to be fair Man U have only got like this recently, and they hung in there with Ole when most ppl thought he wasn't up to it and they are slowly coming good.
I really do not rate most of the squad, who in our midfield, other than Saka would get in any of the top 6, I would struggle to put them in any of the top half..Pepe is in danger of becoming another Ozil who has the occasional good touch then disappears and doesnt work for the team, I really hope he comes good. Then I look at the centre backs I shake my head as I cannot believe that I am hoping sometimes they start Luiz because the alternatives are so poor. We have bought talent sometimes when they were young and turned it to dross in the centre pack department, and at other times just appalling like Silvestre. Partey will make a big difference when he comes back.

I also like Arteta, no doubt the job has come a few years to early for him but I do not want him sacked. I have to accept that it could happen and I could not really complain if it does. I hope things turn around for him. We desperately need someone who can open up teams who sit behind the ball. We are better against teams that come on to us at the moment.. Here is hoping for a decent transfer window.

 

[TheBear]

I don't disagree that if he was at the club listed above he would have been sacked... but tbf i don't want to support 1 of them and I do not like the way they sack managers, although to be fair Man U have only got like this recently, and they hung in there with Ole when most ppl thought he wasn't up to it and they are slowly coming good.
I really do not rate most of the squad, who in our midfield, other than Saka would get in any of the top 6, I would struggle to put them in any of the top half..Pepe is in danger of becoming another Ozil who has the occasional good touch then disappears and doesnt work for the team, I really hope he comes good. Then I look at the centre backs I shake my head as I cannot believe that I am hoping sometimes they start Luiz because the alternatives are so poor. We have bought talent sometimes when they were young and turned it to dross in the centre pack department, and at other times just appalling like Silvestre. Partey will make a big difference when he comes back.

I also like Arteta, no doubt the job has come a few years to early for him but I do not want him sacked. I have to accept that it could happen and I could not really complain if it does. I hope things turn around for him. We desperately need someone who can open up teams who sit behind the ball. We are better against teams that come on to us at the moment.. Here is hoping for a decent transfer window.

Well I think the squad is better than we are given credit for we have been unlucky with Thomas Partey injuries because he walks into just about every EPL side.

Aubameyang as good as any forward in the league. Before this Season he had a better goal return than Salah, Jesus, Martial, Aguero or Vardy.

Gabriel I rate highly. Think he's one of the best defenders around.

Tierney is quality as well.

Then Saka and Martinelli two of the best youngsters in the league.

Pepe was one of the best players in France when he arrived, he's young with a wand of a left foot - surely a good manager can get more out of him.

When you look at how well Fofana is doing at Leceister it makes the decision to leave Saliba out of our squad even more questionable.