Arteta Out Thread.

[Citizen Kane.]

Your team is definitely nearer top4, than ours... We are miles off it, we were never in contention from the start of the season!

New Signings are always a gamble, particularly when you factor in the fact that these players have to contend with a new league and new culture.

I cant argue with this point, just to question whether an A-List manager at the top of their game can eek out an extra 10-15% from these players? Are you saying they are beyond being redeemed?

Again, I take your point, however how long do we give a new signing? As it can be a bit unfair to compare player x with player y.. We also have to accept it is difficult to replace some players, Modric how do replace him, Bale, Kane, Erriksen, Son, Henry, Berkamp, Viera, and players of those ilk.. Even with a bottomless pit of cash, these players are once in a generation type of players. We have had so many false dawns of Viera replacement, we have now given up and judge each player solely on their own merit. If Kane decides to go, it would be unfair on any replacement to be compared to his prowess!

These players you say, were not the finished material from day one, not even Bale (when you signed him from Southampton), the key is year on year improvement... Sometimes, I suspect having too many players in upsets the team dynamics.

You make some excellent points.

As DH has said, we are only closer to being a top 4 side than you thanks to Kane and Son. Take those two out the equation (we saw it in action last season and briefly this season in cup competition) and we are literally a mid-table to bottom half side.

You are right, new signings are always a gamble. Look at Sheff Utd. Blew their entire transfer budget on Rhian Brewster and he has given them 0 goals and 0 assists in 28 games.

For me, a major red flag I look for with every signing is how many of our PL rivals are sniffing around the same player. IIRC, no one was particularly interested in Pepe, Partey or Lacazette. Is that perhaps a clue why they have struggled to adapt?

True, we faced competition for Lo Celso and Tanguy but it was all on the continent. What did our rivals see that made them avoid? Conversely, I look at players who we had huge interest in but so did our rivals and they moved first, and by and large I see success stories. Bruno Fernandes, Ruben Dias, Tielemans, Maddison, Godfrey. All have gone on to impress far quicker than the alternatives we went for. Perhaps consensus among top PL clubs is an indication that the player is less of a gamble?

True, no question a Harry Redknapp type would squeeze an extra 10-15% out of this team. But add 10% more points to our total and we still wouldn't be in the top 4 . A new manager would make top 6 with the current squad. A top new manager would scrape 4th but only by dint of Kane and Son's quality.

How long do you give a new signing? I don't know. There is no exact science. What I do know is that both of our clubs have developed a habit of hanging on to players for far too long. That we recently gave Dier, Lamela and Alderweireld new contracts speaks volumes of the delusion at the very top of this club.

 

[Dier Hard]

I think it is unfair to label players like Ndombele, Partey and Pepe dross. These players in a proper functioning team, we would be raving on about them. I have seen Partey play for Athletico and felt he was a class act. Pepe, I never really saw play, but I have seen flashes of his brilliance and don't know if these guys have been given a good run in the team. Ndombele, (I would pick him over any Leicester midfielders) I have seen him play for you guys, again I felt he was a class act might be inconsistent, but still a very good player, same goes for Beijwin (sic) last season before the lock down, he was very explosive. I still feel the players we have should be doing a lot better than what they are currently producing. I don't look at any of the current top 4 teams (minus City) and panic when we play them.. United you guys gave them a good beating, Mancity you beat comfortably, Chelsea you have no fear for, Leicester the same.. The key issue is these players not showing for the routine 3points e.g. Newcastle, Wolves, Southampton etc..We lost home/away to Wolves, Everton and Villa, Liverpool, City, Burnley claimed 4points and the list goes on!

I didn't necessarily say those players were dross, I said they've been **** signings (which I don't think anyone would disagree with thus far) and part of the poor recruitment by both sides but that both Arsenal and Spurs have largely a bunch of dross in their squads. That said, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if the club decided to try recouping some of the money for our two big money flops in the summer and I'd absolutely take Tielemans over Ndombele, I'd take Ndidi over him too despite the the fact Ndidi plays a different role. There's actually a lot of Leicester players I'd take over our equivalents if truth be told, what's more annoying for us is about 5 or 6 of Leicester's signings in recent years were on our radar, yet we either passed up on them or chose alternatives.

Agreed, we've had some great results against those you've mentioned but it's not like we've always turned up in big games. We've also lost to Utd, City, Pool (twice), yourselves, Everton and Leicester this season in the league, along with drawing or losing to a number of the bottom half sides. So it's not a case of players simply failing to show for the bankers, they've failed to show throughout most of the season.

True again that a better system and coaching may raise the level of some by x% but I've seen enough of too many of these players to know that the majority have either seen their best days or will never be good enough to be at the level for our aspirations. As CK said, we (and you) know what a top four/ top six calibre player looks like in recent years and we're currently severely lacking those outside of Kane, Son and one or two others, as are you guys outside of a select few.

North London is pretty pitiful at the moment.

 

[cini65]

I didn't necessarily say those players were dross, I said they've been **** signings (which I don't think anyone would disagree with thus far) and part of the poor recruitment by both sides but that both Arsenal and Spurs have largely a bunch of dross in their squads. That said, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep if the club decided to try recouping some of the money for our two big money flops in the summer and I'd absolutely take Tielemans over Ndombele, I'd take Ndidi over him too despite the the fact Ndidi plays a different role. There's actually a lot of Leicester players I'd take over our equivalents if truth be told, what's more annoying for us is about 5 or 6 of Leicester's signings in recent years were on our radar, yet we either passed up on them or chose alternatives.

Agreed, we've had some great results against those you've mentioned but it's not like we've always turned up in big games. We've also lost to Utd, City, Pool (twice), yourselves, Everton and Leicester this season in the league, along with drawing or losing to a number of the bottom half sides. So it's not a case of players simply failing to show for the bankers, they've failed to show throughout most of the season.

True again that a better system and coaching may raise the level of some by x% but I've seen enough of too many of these players to know that the majority have either seen their best days or will never be good enough to be at the level for our aspirations. As CK said, we (and you) know what a top four/ top six calibre player looks like in recent years and we're currently severely lacking those outside of Kane, Son and one or two others, as are you guys outside of a select few.

North London is pretty pitiful at the moment.

Meh. I bet if you put Ndombele in the Leicester team he'd be immense. They're under different pressures there, and working with freedom under a manager who's perfect in that situation. Put Tielemans in a Mourinho team and he'd look no better than Ndombele.

This is why saying signings are bad doesn't work I don't think. Both our teams have such deep rooted problems outside of simply the playing personnel that we could both have signed almost anyone and they'd struggle to have shone.

Calibre of player is not our problem for the most part. Our players should be challenging Spurs and United for fourth. Liverpool and Chelsea would normally be challenging City for that title with all the relevant quality in the squads.

We've got serious attitude, training and tactics issues. Granted we need a right back and centre mid. But above all else our defence would be infinitely better if we actually played properly as a unit which we don't.

 

[Dier Hard]

Meh. I bet if you put Ndombele in the Leicester team he'd be immense. They're under different pressures there, and working with freedom under a manager who's perfect in that situation. Put Tielemans in a Mourinho team and he'd look no better than Ndombele.

This is why saying signings are bad doesn't work I don't think. Both our teams have such deep rooted problems outside of simply the playing personnel that we could both have signed almost anyone and they'd struggle to have shone.

Calibre of player is not our problem for the most part. Our players should be challenging Spurs and United for fourth. Liverpool and Chelsea would normally be challenging City for that title with all the relevant quality in the squads.

We've got serious attitude, training and tactics issues. Granted we need a right back and centre mid. But above all else our defence would be infinitely better if we actually played properly as a unit which we don't.

He wouldn't be because his fitness will always prevent him from having a lasting effect. Rarely plays 90 minutes and when he does he's often been ineffective for the final 20-30, last season you could even see he was physically overweight, for a pro baller that's just unacceptable and it's why he was left out for most of the second half of the season. Jose wasn't great for us but it's far too easy to blame him for Ndombele's failings, he's got talent but his application to the game is shoddy. As of right now Tielemans is easily a better all round player, he'd improve us nicely.

Calibre of player is definitely your problem, as is it ours. Both sets of players have mainly gone through two managers and some even three. Gets to a point where a coach's tactics/ training methods can't be the sole reason for disappointment and failing to match club expectations. Poch himself even spoke of Spurs needing a painful rebuild, whilst we signed 9 players under Jose, not all of those were signed for the first XI and we've had mixed success which is typical of transfers but we've still got many of the players Poch would've likely wanted sold back in 2019 still featuring quite prominently in 2021. If you ask most Spurs fans, there's a solid 8 players we need binning before we can begin moving forward with fresh impetus. From an outsider looking at your squad, I'd say it's very similar, there's very few players I rate at Arsenal, less than a handful if truth be told.

 

[TheBear]

WellI I dont really buy that argument exactly. Prior to Arteta.. Auba had a BETTER goalscoring ratio than Kane in the EPL (and Lacazette is a superb alternative).

Ok so Auba has had health amd fitness problems this year - but I feel like if he went to Bayern next week we would see him scoring at his usual high level. For whatever reason Arteta has not been getting the best (or even close to) out of our forwards.

 

[gooner4ever]

WellI I dont really buy that argument exactly. Prior to Arteta.. Auba had a BETTER goalscoring ratio than Kane in the EPL (and Lacazette is a superb alternative).

Ok so Auba has had health amd fitness problems this year - but I feel like if he went to Bayern next week we would see him scoring at his usual high level. For whatever reason Arteta has not been getting the best (or even close to) out of our forwards.

playing Auba on the wing and Laca as 9 has clearly not worked and neither has had decent service until ESR and Saka started playing.

So Arteta is at fault for:
preserving with Willian instead of the kids,
not giving Martenelli or Nelson game time,
playing Ceballos and Bellerin when both are clearly leaving,
playing an unfit Partey which then made him have injury setback,
not making substitutes till too late,
confusing tactics and set ups.

 

[TheBear]

Cant back this.

He needs to go.

 

[gooner4ever]

Why take off both strikers when we need a goal !!!!!’

 

[omogooner]

What does Arteta have to do to be relieved of his post? Just asking for a friend!

 

[TheBear]

Meh. I bet if you put Ndombele in the Leicester team he'd be immense. They're under different pressures there, and working with freedom under a manager who's perfect in that situation. Put Tielemans in a Mourinho team and he'd look no better than Ndombele.

This is why saying signings are bad doesn't work I don't think. Both our teams have such deep rooted problems outside of simply the playing personnel that we could both have signed almost anyone and they'd struggle to have shone.

Calibre of player is not our problem for the most part. Our players should be challenging Spurs and United for fourth. Liverpool and Chelsea would normally be challenging City for that title with all the relevant quality in the squads.

We've got serious attitude, training and tactics issues. Granted we need a right back and centre mid. But above all else our defence would be infinitely better if we actually played properly as a unit which we don't.

Ndombele wouldnt get near Leceisters starting 11 IMO.

Soumare is truely excellent (wish we had signed him), then Tielemans, Ndidi and Maddison.

 

[TheBear]

Makes you realise though - The Club has lowered their standards.

Wenger lost the job for finishing 5th. Emery lost his job for finishing 6th - Arteta scrapped 8th and is still getting backing.

 

[BrunelGunner]

Makes you realise though - The Club has lowered their standards.

Wenger lost the job for finishing 5th. Emery lost his job for finishing 6th - Arteta scrapped 8th and is still getting backing.

At least we can agree on this. 5th and 6th was deemed sackable for Wenger and we’ve had two back-to-back 8th placed finishes, yet Arteta is still in a job.

It’s criminal.

The results this weekend in the PL haven’t done much to better my mood

 

[Solid Air]

From an outsider POV i fully expected Arteta to be binned this close season yet he gets to spend another £65m

 

[white_gunner]

From an outsider POV i fully expected Arteta to be binned this close season yet he gets to spend another £65m

I really think the main reason he’s still in a job is because the board members don’t want to swallow their pride. Arteta was deemed the ‘savior’ and a ‘long term project’. The club really put a lot of trust and belief in the appointment and the people upstairs are just too proud to admit it just isn’t working and is never going to work.

Eventually though the fans will have their voice heard and he will be sacked before Christmas.

 

[TheBear]

Yeah the fact there's been a major staff up-heavle has helped Mikel.

But Auba and Laca seemingly want out (some sources claiming they spend more sessions defending than attacking and as strikers are sick of it - this would explain why both look so blunt in front of goal) and now Bellerin is also looking to leave.

 

[gills4prem]

Yeah the fact there's been a major staff up-heavle has helped Mikel.

But Auba and Laca seemingly want out (some sources claiming they spend more sessions defending than attacking and as strikers are sick of it - this would explain why both look so blunt in front of goal) and now Bellerin is also looking to leave.

But look at toney performance against us he attacks but also defends and does it well no complaining just does what is needed to win games, Brentford played as a team... If our strikers are whinning about having to defend then they can piss off.. We need team players right now..

 

[TheBear]

But look at toney performance against us he attacks but also defends and does it well no complaining just does what is needed to win games, Brentford played as a team... If our strikers are whinning about having to defend then they can piss off.. We need team players right now..

No I think what they mean is all training is defence orientated. They arnt learning or practising any attacking.

 

[Solid Air]

No I think what they mean is all training is defence orientated. They arnt learning or practising any attacking.

not exactly doing much for the defence either from where i'm sitting .

 

[gills4prem]

No I think what they mean is all training is defence orientated. They arnt learning or practising any attacking.

They are 30 plus years old been training how to attack all their life, they need to help the team.. If arteta wants them to help the team help in defensive and support the team then they should do it.. Not spit out dummies like babies..

 

[TheBear]

They are 30 plus years old been training how to attack all their life, they need to help the team.. If arteta wants them to help the team help in defensive and support the team then they should do it.. Not spit out dummies like babies..

That may be true but if what they are saying is correct Arteta needs to be fired.
To be sharp at anything you have to be constantly drilling. You cant have strikers not practising shooting/attacking - thats ****ing insaine.