Off Topic European Debate Thread

I'd go back to the sags board if I were you

 

Why? I think you got totally done then, and by a sag that you tried belittle yesterday

 

It is not true that Britain sends £350 million ... A point already addressed with facts in this thread (pages ago). And you avoided answering them.

It is not true that Turkey is on a path to EU membership, for all that Mr Cameron was a supporter of the idea ...A point already addressed with facts and opinion in this thread (pages ago...). And you avoided answering them.

It is not true, finally, that Brexit would answer at a stroke the prayers of those Vote Leave is wooing ... What prayers are these? It is clear that some concerns could, and would be more easily addressed outside of the EU by a truly self governing Country. Being outside of the EU would be no utopia, but Britain would be able to pursue its own path via its own elected leaders.

Experts overwhelmingly concur ... That Britain has not boomed whilst in the EU. Britain has not been recession proofed, and Britain has massive challenges ahead of it in, or out e.g. If the UK economy performs more smoothly whilst in Europe the UK's massive infrastructure problem with immigration and a growing (not ageing, growing) population worsens ever as more people will want to live here - Remain has NO plan to deal with this.

 

A few more fact-ett's (that might surprise some). The following are in VERY round numbers for discussion purposes:

- The UK annual GDP is circa £2,100 billion.
- circa 75% of this is SERVICES
- manufacturing is only 12%
- construction is even less at 6%
- the next biggest category is agriculture at 0.7%

The services figure is particularly staggering. Napoleon was right, we ARE a nation of shopkeepers. Even more staggering, after all the headlines and rhetoric, is that the Daily Mail should come out in support of Remain. That one was definitely from left field.

Conservatively, even a 1% drop in GDP (and I think it will be worse) is £21 billion. This is nearly 3 times what we will save in membership fee and that is just for starters.

Currently, we have 750,000 unemployed, now we can all argue about the real figure but we will use the official stats for discussion. Brexit will IMO accelerate this figure and if we get to 1m (conservatively), this will be a further BIG drain on the economy with the double whammy of less tax income and more in benefit payments. This can easily put another £20 billion on the drop in income so we are up to £40 billion LESS money to spend on the NHS, etc and there are many other factors to be considered which will put a drain on the economy so, we could quite easily get to £50 billion worse off a year without even trying.

I think that this could be considered grounds to hold an emergency budget, don't you...??!!!

This whole Leave campaign is about controlling borders and immigration. HELL YEAH, lets take back control of our country and tell the EU to do one and in the process, **** ourselves over and in the poor house to boot. The days of the UK being a power in the world are over, we make very little and the only thing that we have left of any note is our financial services zone which represents the bulk of the GDP of this country

No one seems to realise the importance of this and should we leave, the EU will eventually create/enhance their own version of the city. It is a case of when (and NOT IF) and when it happens, if they only take even 10% of the action, we are well and truly sunk with another £200 billion gone. Immigration pales into insignificance in the face of this.

Ironically, the city is such a cesspool that it will have absolutely ZERO qualms about joining in the dismantling of our own economy to line its own pockets so we will have ****ed ourselves over, AGAIN...

So yes, lets be masters of our own destiny and drive the country into the ****ter, authors of our own downfall more like. I am done with this now other than to add one last comment per Bill Clinton, "it's the economy stupid" - nothing else matters...

 

Mtg go to work and ask his boss ????
Silly sod is still in education.

Prem - you say the EU will get 'pissy' if we leave.
Grow some my friend.
The EU is a basket case and will implode sooner or later.
It just doesn't work - check out the Euro.
The same folk you're believing told us the world would end if we didn't join the Euro.
I'll say it again - Grow Some.

 

So when I replay to you with facts and point out your many mistakes (in a well mannered, friendly and thoughful way), instead of you answering the questions put to you or saying thanks for the corrections, you throw insults at me and now what seems to be a threat too. Such a shame that you are being like this.

Thought this was a debate thread? I cant see much debating from you. Instead you just ignore questions, you repeat yourself a lot on things that have already been answered by us many times and then throw on a few insults when you get corrected.

That is an interesting tactic you have. How is it working out for you? You being like this has already made ROD decide LEAVE. You seem to be doing great. Keep it up

 

I have enlarged the word that needs a lot of emphasis when read

 

The simple fact is do we govern ourselves,make our own decisions,run our own country with a elected government.

Or do we let un-elected free loaders in Brussels dictate and tell our government what to do,and do with our money as it wishes.

We are big enough and strong enough to stand on our on two feet,and are more than capable of running our country.

Vote Leave.

 

I have received insults from MTG and what looks like a threat.

I suppose, as I am just a "sag" it doesnt matter I guess

 

For once, and only once, I'm with you CJS.

 

That it dont matter as im a "sag"? Thanks RP

 

He is ignoring questions when he cant answer them or posted something untrue. Then there is calling posts bullshit and name calling.

 

Tbh I will admit that I did slightly go to far with a few comments but the sag one was a joke.

In my opinion scholarships are there to reward people as opposed to anything else and I was a bit overly passionate being a student and going for scholarships myself.

As for the dodging questions part, it's just that there are so many posts for the out side and I don't have time to read or respond to all of them as my A level exams have just reached its most intense period and so they are a priority.

I don't want to cause any upsets for when this ends and barring disgruntlement from whichever side loses we can all unite to moan about the football

At the end of the day both sides of the argument have passionate issues and agendas and so it will get heated.

 

Fairness is taking a considerate view when answering others posts. Something the poster in question has not displayed when answering posts, or not which frequently has been the case.

Back on topic.

Tonight on TV Mr Cameron displayed a rare moment of honesty. "We pay in more than we get out" ... Although he said it so fast he rivalled a cattle market auctioneer on amphetamines.

Tonight Mr Cameron mentioned reform. It's naive that Mr Cameron thinks anyone would believe him when he says he can get the EU to reform, the EU is heading towards expansion and ever closer integration. The prospect is the message a remain vote will send to the EU, it's a green light for closer integration, not reform. The only way the UK will see reform and change within the EU is to leave, then the real reform and negotiations begin.

 

Lets not let this get out of hand again eh!

There are strong opinions here of where our future lies, I have made my opinion perfectly clear, but democracy is about others having theirs too., even if you completely disagree with them a debate should include all the other opinions surely?

 

MTG, your argument on here seems to me to be an almost mirror image to the remain campaign argument nationally..

All scare tactics with smears and not a single fact that backs up the financial argument for staying, which is by far the strongest part of the argument you have. I have not heard one single fact that has even made me twitch to my my commitment to vote out.

Camerons behaviour has actually made me more stringent in my belief that I want to leave and I want him gone as soon as possible after this vote he has proven himself to be a two faced liar.

People who have multi cultural families won't tolerate being classed as racist little Englanders anymore, it doesn't wash, genuine concerns about immigration levels are fair questions and the remain campaign insistence on referring to this as racism will backfire.

 

Nobody wants that to happen Wiz.. its just an important issue that has strong opinions.