Israel, please stop this ...

[FTM Dave]

'
First, I'll nail my colours to the mast.
I support the Jewish Nation 100%

I agree with alcoauth.

Who can be against the idea of a Jewish state? Well, no-one.

But a Jewish state is not some abstract idea. There was no Israel in 1948. It could only be set up by kicking the Palestinians out of their own country with the vilest violence in the 1948 Nakba.

'
BUT I detest this Israeli Government.

The balance of power, in recent years has been in the hands of small Right Wing Religious Groups.

It's not just this Israeli government. The Palestinians are incredibly weak and in reality have long ago given up hope of getting their country back. They would accept a Palestinian state made up of only the West Bank & Gaza. But virtually no forces in Israeli society would accept this. Israeli settlements continue to grow in the West Bank on even more stolen Palestinian land. At the very best the future for Palestinians in the West Bank is apartheid & occupation: not allowed their own state but not allowed to be Israeli citizens either (not that they would accept of course). Permanent occupation by Israel & apartheid. For ever.

Guess what - if you brutalise a population for 75 years you're going to get some of that violence back. Like everyone else I thought 7th October was horrible but the Palestinians have had countless 7th Octobers and it didn't surprise me one bit.

 

[polyphemus]

Can you expand on this?

My feeling is, Israel exists illegitimately and by force, it ejected the natives from their land, I'm not convinced they have a right to exist (provocative language admittedly).

This problem is way beyond any simple explanation, but I will TRY.

Firstly both Arabs and Jews claim what is now called Israel as their historic Homeland
The old testament claims that guided by The Devine, Moses led the Jews to this their Promised Land.
BUT
Moses is also an Islamic Prophet.

Can we find firmer base then.
Up to a point, yes.
When Rome occupied the area in 63 BC they considered most of the local population Jewish.
What we now call the Muslim Nation gained control during the Sixth Century.

Over the century's the Jews spread around the known World.
Generaly they kept themselves together and tried to build a life for their families.
Bur they were rarely allowed to settle anywhere for long
England is a good exmple.
They first settled around 1070.
Their tight knit European Comunity made them ideal Bankers.
Naturaly they were disliked by English and from time to time there were masacres (1189/90).
Edward 1, having borrowed substatialy from their comunity, banished all Jews from England in 1290.
And they stayed away till the mid 1650'swhen they were invited bak and promised that they would have the right to follow their Religon.

There is little doubt that as a race they have been persecuted for most of their History.
1939 - 1945 was merely the most recent large scale example.

Despite all this The Jews have, somehow retained their collective identity.
They will be found in any country which allows them to practice their Faith.
It is this 'Whole Collective' that I think of as The Jewish Nation.

(I've done my best to keep this concise.
HOWEVER, I make no claim to being any sort of real Historian.
If you want to get an in depth view, get ready for lots of research!!)

 

[Saf]

The peaceful pro Palestinian protests in London have gone off route and towards a synagogue. Nothing to do with them being massive anti-semites, of course.

 

[FTM Dave]

The peaceful pro Palestinian protests in London have gone off route and towards a synagogue. Nothing to do with them being massive anti-semites, of course.

Any evidence of this?

I've just read the BBC report of the protest and there is no mention of what you allege.

I know the police and the organisers were at loggerheads because organisers want to march past the BBC and the police won't allow it.

Considering there have been Jewish people on every single one of the London Palestinian protests what you say would be very, very strange.

 

[Saf]

Any evidence of this?

I've just read the BBC report of the protest and there is no mention of what you allege.

I know the police and the organisers were at loggerheads because organisers want to march past the BBC and the police won't allow it.

Considering there have been Jewish people on every single one of the London Palestinian protests what you say would be very, very strange.

Police prevented demonstrators gathering outside Broadcasting House because of its close proximity to a synagogue and a risk there could be "serious disruption" as congregants attend services on the Jewish holy day.

A group of protesters later attempted to march from the rally but were stopped a short distance away at Trafalgar Square, after breaking through a police line.

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[Star of David Bardsley]

Any evidence of this?

I've just read the BBC report of the protest and there is no mention of what you allege.

I know the police and the organisers were at loggerheads because organisers want to march past the BBC and the police won't allow it.

Considering there have been Jewish people on every single one of the London Palestinian protests what you say would be very, very strange.

There’s been an extremely small number of Jews on each march and self-hating Jews have been around as long as Jews have. Basically the kids who didn’t make many friends at Sunday Hebrew classes or summer camp. Their numbers, on marches and online, are fleshed out by non-Jewish oddballs marching behind a Jewish banner. There’s a big ‘anti-Zionist’ Twitter account called Torah Jews that is run by Turks.

The vast majority of British Jews support Israel, as they should, because they aren’t idiots.

 

[Saf]

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[FTM Dave]

Police prevented demonstrators gathering outside Broadcasting House because of its close proximity to a synagogue

So exactly what i said then. The demonstrators wanted to protest against the BBC.

 

[Saf]

So exactly what i said then. The demonstrators wanted to protest against the BBC.

Of course

I’m sure being next to a synagogue, on a Jewish holy day, had absolutely nothing to do with it.

Judging by your previous comments on this matter, I’d be wasting my time here. Your mind is already made up.

Enjoy the rest of your night.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

So exactly what i said then. The demonstrators wanted to protest against the BBC.

Did they though?

Any other group gets told no in advance then there’s hell to pay should they choose to ignore that. If football fans gathered where they were told well, well in advance not to they’d be getting their skulls cracked. Swap the Stone Island for polyester keffiyehs and swastikas on placards and it’s different though.

Fortunately, albeit far too late, The Met showed some bollocks this time.

Let’s hope Kfir Babas is alive and well tomorrow or Bibi might fancy sending the IDF in for one last dance.

 

[Saf]

The IDF that has Palestinians in their ranks and fighting for them in Gaza.


Now that is very, very strange.

 

[Saf]

Remember when this ****er tried to become PM and turned Labour into one big anti-semitic party.

Well…


MPs Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonnell have agreed to be interviewed under caution by police following a pro-Palestinian rally in central London on Saturday, the BBC understands.

The former Labour leader, 75, and former shadow chancellor, 73, voluntarily attended a police station in the capital as the Metropolitan Police investigates what it says was a coordinated effort by organisers to breach conditions imposed on the event.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Very courageous, and quite correct, of the UK to stand up to Israel.

These people are sick, bitter and twisted ...

... they think they're immune from any kind of criticism.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgk1ek19lo

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Very courageous, and quite correct, of the UK to stand up to Israel.

These people are sick, bitter and twisted ...

... they think they're immune from any kind of criticism.

You must log in or register to see images

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c8xgk1ek19lo

Great to know where that drip Lammy draws the line for foreign politicians unless it’s just pandering to the mob over the trendy thing.

 

[Smug in Boots]

Great to know where that drip Lammy draws the line for foreign politicians unless it’s just pandering to the mob over the trendy thing.

Read that twice, no idea what you're trying to say tbh.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Read that twice, no idea what you're trying to say tbh.

A third time might do it.

I’m saying it’s student politics. If these weren’t Israeli politicians it wouldn’t have made it to Lammy’s desk let alone be headline news. Doesn’t mean Ben Gvir and Smotrich aren’t bellends but Israel’s electoral system ensures they have a disproportionate voice. It’s still a pathetic decision.

 

[Smug in Boots]

A third time might do it.

I’m saying it’s student politics. If these weren’t Israeli politicians it wouldn’t have made it to Lammy’s desk let alone be headline news. Doesn’t mean Ben Gvir and Smotrich aren’t bellends but Israel’s electoral system ensures they have a disproportionate voice. It’s still a pathetic decision.

Ah right, so it's just your opinion which is fair enough ...

... I think you're spouting absolute drivel which is my opinion.

 

[Star of David Bardsley]

Ah right, so it's just your opinion which is fair enough ...

... I think you're spouting absolute drivel which is my opinion.

You’re welcome to your opinion.

A lot of bad **** going on in the world and extremists all over the place but we’ll pretend to be tough on this as it’s popular.

 

[Smug in Boots]

You’re welcome to your opinion.

A lot of bad **** going on in the world and extremists all over the place but we’ll pretend to be tough on this as it’s popular.

Again, just an opinion.

I imagine yours are well rehearsed and carved in stone.

 

[Pure River Slut]

There’s been an extremely small number of Jews on each march and self-hating Jews have been around as long as Jews have. Basically the kids who didn’t make many friends at Sunday Hebrew classes or summer camp. Their numbers, on marches and online, are fleshed out by non-Jewish oddballs marching behind a Jewish banner. There’s a big ‘anti-Zionist’ Twitter account called Torah Jews that is run by Turks.

The vast majority of British Jews support Israel, as they should, because they aren’t idiots.

So you support the slaughter of children ?