WAR! What is it good for?

[Treble]

Yes.

https://georgetownsecuritystudiesre...-houthi-threat-to-the-strategic-waterway/amp/

https://acleddata.com/2024/01/05/qa-why-are-yemens-houthis-attacking-ships-in-the-red-sea/

They’ve not got the right to fire off missiles at innocent ships that have nothing to do with what’s happening in Gaza. They might try and make it about Israel and Palestine but it’s a very weak argument.

There’s enough sources saying the Houthis are doing this to distract attention from their popularity plummeting in Yemen and this is a way to win back support.

The first link is from 5 years ago and reading through it they targeted warships and commercial vessels being used by Saudi and UAE military as well as US warships, in the middle of a direct conflict with all 3 involved. The 2nd link talks about attacks after 7th October. If that's the best evidence available it's very weak. There's no doubt what's been happening since Oct 7th is clear and significant and been reported on consistently.

As for your other points, they're not doing it to convince you and me. The only thing that matters to them is the cause they believe in.

We can argue the toss but none of it changes the fact the war has escalated, as was always the risk. And it will continue to if the plan is to bomb the **** out of Gaza and now Yemen.

I've said what many have said all along that there's no military solition it will only ever be resolved through a political solution and negotiated peace. We can ignore that of course and carry on and watch the whole region go up in flames.

 

[brb]

They’re affecting world trade and putting innocent lives at risk firing missiles at these ships. They’ve been told to stop. They’ve been threatened and still carried on.

Apart from taking direct action, what else could have been done? They couldn’t just be allowed to carry on. As you’ve implied they’ve done it for a reaction. So surely they’re to blame for this?

It's been good seeing Labour support the bombings. I will not be voting Tory at the next election, but it will be interesting in the GE this year, to see how voters respond to all the parties in regards to Gaza and Yemen. Will they vote domestically and not care about their world view in war torn areas. For me it don't make a tad of difference, so it comes down to domestic politics because the two main parties are towing the same line and I'm not a great fan of the Lib Dems...but still time. Surely all those marching in support of Palestinians yesterday are stuck in a quandry or do they not really care enough and put domestic policies first? Decisions, decisions...

 

[brb]

The sad human reality of war, said all in this one comment...

Middle East Eye

@MiddleEastEye
·
14s

“The dogs, facing starvation like all of Gaza’s inhabitants, smell the decaying bodies, crawl deep into the ruins and emerge with body parts in their mouths”

 

[Sucky]

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[Saf]

The first link is from 5 years ago and reading through it they targeted warships and commercial vessels being used by Saudi and UAE military as well as US warships, in the middle of a direct conflict with all 3 involved. The 2nd link talks about attacks after 7th October. If that's the best evidence available it's very weak. There's no doubt what's been happening since Oct 7th is clear and significant and been reported on consistently.

As for your other points, they're not doing it to convince you and me. The only thing that matters to them is the cause they believe in.

We can argue the toss but none of it changes the fact the war has escalated, as was always the risk. And it will continue to if the plan is to bomb the **** out of Gaza and now Yemen.

I've said what many have said all along that there's no military solition it will only ever be resolved through a political solution and negotiated peace. We can ignore that of course and carry on and watch the whole region go up in flames.

I posted it because it was from 5 years ago and it was happening then. They were only targeting Saudi and UAE ships back then? Like they’re only targeting ships heading for Israel now?

I don’t buy the Houthis line that they’re doing this because of Gaza. It’s becoming more clear that Gaza is the excuse and the real reason is because they’re losing support in Yemen and this is a way to pull it back round.

I’m unsure about what you think should be done about the Houthis targeting civilian and commercial ships? They’ve been asked not to do it. They’ve been told not to do it. They’ve been warned that if they continued this would happen. I know you think this plays into their hands and it is what they want, so do we just leave them to continue firing missiles endangering innocent lives?

Sometimes military action needs to be taken and on this one, they’ve left the US and its allies with no choice. They’ve asked for it and they’ve got it. It’s all on them.

 

[Saf]

It's been good seeing Labour support the bombings. I will not be voting Tory at the next election, but it will be interesting in the GE this year, to see how voters respond to all the parties in regards to Gaza and Yemen. Will they vote domestically and not care about their world view in war torn areas. For me it don't make a tad of difference, so it comes down to domestic politics because the two main parties are towing the same line and I'm not a great fan of the Lib Dems...but still time. Surely all those marching in support of Palestinians yesterday are stuck in a quandry or do they not really care enough and put domestic policies first? Decisions, decisions...

As you say, Labour are supporting the military action that we have involved ourselves in. Surely all the Palestine supporters won’t be hypocrites and support them now, will they?

I’m not voting for the Tories, neither. I do have a conscience and I’m well aware they’ve took the piss and need a decade in the wilderness to get their act together. At the moment, I’d say I’m 75% not voting at all and 25% chance I’ll vote Labour.

Starmer is as close to a Tory as you can get. The Labour voters know this but they’ll never admit it

 

[Saf]

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I wonder if they’re being arrested for acting violent?

Burning a Quran is pointless, shameful and disrespectful. It shouldn’t be illegal, though. Ultimately, it’s just viewed as a book.

 

[Saf]

Scumbags


Six people have been arrested on suspicion of a plot to disrupt the London Stock Exchange.

The Met Police said information suggested activists from the Palestine Action group were intending to target the exchange on Monday,

The force said it was believed those involved were planning to cause damage and "lock on" in an effort to stop the building opening for trading.

Arrests were made in London, Liverpool and Brighton on Sunday.

All six people are currently in custody.

The Met said it was "mindful of the suggestion that this was one part of a planned week of action".

It said it was in contact with other forces, including City of London Police, to ensure any further disruption could be dealt with.

The Met said the arrests were prompted by information shared by the Daily Express.

Det Supt Sian Thomas said: "These are significant arrests. We believe this group was ready to carry out a disruptive and damaging stunt which could have had serious implications had it been carried out successfully."

A 31-year-old man from Liverpool was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to cause criminal damage by officers from Merseyside Police in the early hours of Sunday.

Five others were arrested over the same offence later in the day, including a woman, 29 from Brent in north London, a 23-year-old man from Tower Hamlets in east London, two women, aged 28 and 26, from Liverpool and a 27-year-old man in Brighton.

"I'm grateful to the Express for their willingness to provide the information gleaned from their own investigation," Det Supt Thomas said.

"It was instrumental in helping us intervene successfully. Having only been provided with the material on Friday afternoon we had limited time to act."

She said it was thanks to the "determined efforts" of the Met's public order crime team and colleagues in Merseyside that officers "were able to identify, locate and arrest those we suspect to be involved in this plot".

 

[brb]

Scumbags


Six people have been arrested on suspicion of a plot to disrupt the London Stock Exchange.

The Met Police said information suggested activists from the Palestine Action group were intending to target the exchange on Monday,

The force said it was believed those involved were planning to cause damage and "lock on" in an effort to stop the building opening for trading.

Arrests were made in London, Liverpool and Brighton on Sunday.

All six people are currently in custody.

The Met said it was "mindful of the suggestion that this was one part of a planned week of action".

It said it was in contact with other forces, including City of London Police, to ensure any further disruption could be dealt with.

The Met said the arrests were prompted by information shared by the Daily Express.

Det Supt Sian Thomas said: "These are significant arrests. We believe this group was ready to carry out a disruptive and damaging stunt which could have had serious implications had it been carried out successfully."

A 31-year-old man from Liverpool was arrested on suspicion of conspiracy to cause criminal damage by officers from Merseyside Police in the early hours of Sunday.

Five others were arrested over the same offence later in the day, including a woman, 29 from Brent in north London, a 23-year-old man from Tower Hamlets in east London, two women, aged 28 and 26, from Liverpool and a 27-year-old man in Brighton.

"I'm grateful to the Express for their willingness to provide the information gleaned from their own investigation," Det Supt Thomas said.

"It was instrumental in helping us intervene successfully. Having only been provided with the material on Friday afternoon we had limited time to act."

She said it was thanks to the "determined efforts" of the Met's public order crime team and colleagues in Merseyside that officers "were able to identify, locate and arrest those we suspect to be involved in this plot".

Cops will be all over the shop in London tomorrow now.

 

[Saf]

Cops will be all over the shop in London tommorrow now.

Yeah absolutely. I’ve had an update from my mate in the forces, btw. He’s in Las Vegas not Los Angeles like I originally said. He comes back for about 4 weeks end of Feb and then flys back out to South Carolina a little while later. He said the training is intense and the Taiwan election going the way it did has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Treble]

I posted it because it was from 5 years ago and it was happening then. They were only targeting Saudi and UAE ships back then? Like they’re only targeting ships heading for Israel now?

I don’t buy the Houthis line that they’re doing this because of Gaza. It’s becoming more clear that Gaza is the excuse and the real reason is because they’re losing support in Yemen and this is a way to pull it back round.

I’m unsure about what you think should be done about the Houthis targeting civilian and commercial ships? They’ve been asked not to do it. They’ve been told not to do it. They’ve been warned that if they continued this would happen. I know you think this plays into their hands and it is what they want, so do we just leave them to continue firing missiles endangering innocent lives?

Sometimes military action needs to be taken and on this one, they’ve left the US and its allies with no choice. They’ve asked for it and they’ve got it. It’s all on them.

I've answered all those things before. It was during a conflict directly against the Saudis, UAE and U.S. It was tactic that worked at the time. My point was there were no such attacks going on before October 7th. They restarted directly following Israel's attacks on Gaza. Whatever their motive, the point is that the conflict has now escalated with the U.S. now bombing them.

We're in a position where the U.S. can't back down. The Houthis will continue to bomb the ships and the U.S. will continue to bomb them. It won't stop anything so it's not a solution is it?

The point is always what is the goal here?

7 things that won't be achieved the longer the fighting goes on:

1) Hamas being eradicated.
2) The hostages being released.
3) A far-right Israeli government being removed from power.
4) Innocent palestinians getting killed.
5) Houthis targeting ships in the Red Sea.
6) The U.S. bombing Yemen.
7) Any long-term two state solution.

Now by any measure of success that is pretty damning

We don't use military action sometimes, we use it all the time especially in the middle east. It never works. So what's the alternative? A ceasefire, have strong brokers, those who hold an influence through military, ideological, and financial clout on all the players to apply pressure on them to the negotiating table - namely the U.S, Saudis, Qatar, and I'd even include Iran.

So why then are we fighting? Well, the 1 thing the fighting does achieve...

The complete destruction of Gaza, a return to the status quo. Where Israel gains more power and continues to illegally occupy palestinian lands, increase settlements and take over East Jerusalem. It's the only reason those tacitly willing to go along with this **** show, such as the U.S., want this war to continue.

 

[brb]

Yeah absolutely. I’ve had an update from my mate in the forces, btw. He’s in Las Vegas not Los Angeles like I originally said. He comes back for about 4 weeks end of Feb and then flys back out to South Carolina a little while later. He said the training is intense and the Taiwan election going the way it did has pretty much put the final nail in the coffin.

I think Milk on here comes from the Carolina region more North though. I'm sure the US have got a big base around Virginia way.

 

[Treble]

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I never understand this about people of faith. If God is almighty why do you feel the need to get riled by people burning any holy book? If anything it shows that your personal faith is either misguided or not very strong.

Having said that, if we're going by the law (and I don't know what this is exactly in the Netherlands) then the burning of the Quran where you know there will be many Muslims gathering, is surely racial incitement?

 

[FosseFilberto]

Iran though, to be quite frank, are a root cause to a lot of violence in the ME...

Such a shame they are not democratic humanitarian pacifists like the Israelis eh?

 

[FosseFilberto]

I never understand this about people of faith. If God is almighty why do you feel the need to get riled by people burning any holy book? If anything it shows that your personal faith is either misguided or not very strong.

Having said that, if we're going by the law (and I don't know what this is exactly in the Netherlands) then the burning of the Quran where you know there will be many Muslims gathering, is surely racial incitement?

Absolutely - and for all religions - and why would God ever need a 'middle-man' - surely he/her/it can speak directly to each and every child of God i.e. 'us' ? - perhaps there isn't a good wi-fi signal in heaven or someat ?

 

[Saf]

I've answered all those things before. It was during a conflict directly against the Saudis, UAE and U.S. It was tactic that worked at the time. My point was there were no such attacks going on before October 7th. They restarted directly following Israel's attacks on Gaza. Whatever their motive, the point is that the conflict has now escalated with the U.S. now bombing them.

We're in a position where the U.S. can't back down. The Houthis will continue to bomb the ships and the U.S. will continue to bomb them. It won't stop anything so it's not a solution is it?

The point is always what is the goal here?

7 things that won't be achieved the longer the fighting goes on:

1) Hamas being eradicated.
2) The hostages being released.
3) A far-right Israeli government being removed from power.
4) Innocent palestinians getting killed.
5) Houthis targeting ships in the Red Sea.
6) The U.S. bombing Yemen.
7) Any long-term two state solution.

Now by any measure of success that is pretty damning

We don't use military action sometimes, we use it all the time especially in the middle east. It never works. So what's the alternative? A ceasefire, have strong brokers, those who hold an influence through military, ideological, and financial clout on all the players to apply pressure on them to the negotiating table - namely the U.S, Saudis, Qatar, and I'd even include Iran.

So why then are we fighting? Well, the 1 thing the fighting does achieve...

The complete destruction of Gaza, a return to the status quo. Where Israel gains more power and continues to illegally occupy palestinian lands, increase settlements and take over East Jerusalem. It's the only reason those tacitly willing to go along with this **** show, such as the U.S., want this war to continue.

8) Hamas firing rockets into Israel
9) Hezbollah firing rockets into Israel

I don’t even disagree with the majority of what you’re saying mate.

If we focus solely on the Houthis firing missiles at commercial ships with civilians on board. I’m still not sure what course of action, if any, you think should be taking?

Should they have been left to target these civilians until a ceasefire is negotiated in Gaza?

 

[Saf]

I think Milk on here comes from the Carolina region more North though. I'm sure the US have got a big base around Virginia way.

My knowledge of America is limited to Florida mate. South Carolina must be like a red neck area the way he described it to me. They’ve been told they’re big on Trump there and unfriendly towards black people.

 

[Welshie]

Well I understand why the UK government has an issue with information leaks.

Your mate is one big mouthed ****er Saf, just revealing international military intelligence to a random mate who posts it on a random football site.

 

[Saf]

Well I understand why the UK government has an issue with information leaks.

Your mate is one big mouthed ****er Saf, just revealing international military intelligence to a random mate who posts it on a random football site.

A random mate? He’s family

I’m the problem here. He told me to say **** all

 

[Treble]

8) Hamas firing rockets into Israel
9) Hezbollah firing rockets into Israel

I don’t even disagree with the majority of what you’re saying mate.

If we focus solely on the Houthis firing missiles at commercial ships with civilians on board. I’m still not sure what course of action, if any, you think should be taking?

Should they have been left to target these civilians until a ceasefire is negotiated in Gaza?

You deal with it by dealing with the underlying issue. If we're saying Iran is supporting and arming Hamas, the Houthis, Hezbollah then the only way you sort this is through a ceasefire ànd political solution.

The Houthis have been firing rockets for over 3 months. There's been no urgency to deal with it. Like with the rest of what's going on. A ceasefire could happen tomorrow if there was any will by the U.S. to do so.

I'll add this as a general point Saf, there are on average, 10 children a day having 1 or 2 limbs being amputed without anaesthetic in Gaza. So forgive me if I don't give a fck that ppl's amazon deliveries are running late.