Match Day Thread Middlesbrough v Hull City

[Kalman]

Not sure Ingram was even dropped for anything, it was just a perceived upgrade was signed.

That's still being dropped and I don't really think Allsop is that better. The criticism of him still stands imo. He struggles with his positioning and judging the flight of the ball in an obvious way that looks comical at times. He's delayed dive against QPR which looked all wrong and the second goal against Watford. He's also not immune from one or two dodgy moments playing out from the back every game as well. I think we could've done a lot better than Allsop in the summer and I'm still not confident with him as our #1.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

Currently our most reliable back four is Coyle, Jones, McLoughlin, Greaves. Vinagre isn't trusted to be a left back.

I think it's time to rest Seri and give the anchor role to Morton.

Also stop playing the likes of Traore and Twine as wingers simply to shoehorn them into the side.

Play Vinagre, Lokilo (if available) or Vaughan there instead.

 

[TIGERSCAVE]

After rewatching the Allsop save at the death, he should hold onto the first one and actually causes the drama himself…. Chortle.

He should also have held the other one in the previous goal mouth scramble.... pushed it straight to one of theirs. As for being good with his feet, some good longer kicks last night, but one absolute suicide ball direct to one of theirs about 25 yards out central.

 

[PLT]

I'm surprised that so many people who hate players playing out of position think that Vinagre on the wing is the answer to it.

I have absolutely no doubt that if he started there and it went wrong, people would complain that he's a left back and shouldn't be on the wing...

 

[PLT]

That's still being dropped and I don't really think Allsop is that better. The criticism of him still stands imo. He struggles with his positioning and judging the flight of the ball in an obvious way that looks comical at times. He's delayed dive against QPR which looked all wrong and the second goal against Watford. He's also not immune from one or two dodgy moments playing out from the back every game as well. I think we could've done a lot better than Allsop in the summer and I'm still not confident with him as our #1.

We'll never find a keeper who has 0 scary moments playing out from the back. It's an inevitability of the way we play that it happens from time to time. It happened with Ingram, who was obviously far less comfortable doing it than Allsop is. If we want to never give it away near our own goal then we need to go back to hoofing it, which some would like I'm sure, but I think it's going pretty well as we are.

 

[TIGERSCAVE]

We'll never find a keeper who has 0 scary moments playing out from the back. It's an inevitability of the way we play that it happens from time to time. It happened with Ingram, who was obviously far less comfortable doing it than Allsop is. If we want to never give it away near our own goal then we need to go back to hoofing it, which some would like I'm sure, but I think it's going pretty well as we are.

Last night PLT the longer kicks were our main cause of threat... we even picked up the seconds from a long kick and defender header.. I agree, the possession style is easier on the eye when it works, but as has been said time and time again there has to be some incisiveness with it. Last night Boro cut us apart with two passes on a number of accessions.

 

[Evington]

Great corner by the way. At long last.

 

[PLT]

Last night PLT the longer kicks were our main cause of threat... we even picked up the seconds from a long kick and defender header.. I agree, the possession style is easier on the eye when it works, but as has been said time and time again there has to be some incisiveness with it. Last night Boro cut us apart with two passes on a number of accessions.

Yep, we've scored several goals this season from long kicks, and usually it's part of the plan. It's not about going short 100% of the time, it's about not just hoofing it automatically because we don't trust ourselves with the ball. We pass to an available teammate until there isn't one, and if the opposition choose to get tight on us and leave more space around their back line then that's when we kick if to Delap or into space for Connolly.

 

[Nikica Jellyfish]

Vinagre looks night and day from Coyle playing left back, both the cameos he’s made recently he’s been scintillating. Begging he gets a run in the side.

Rosie seems to have his players who are allowed to drop stinkers and still start the next week, whilst Ozan/Vinagre seem to be pulled if they have a bad week.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Well done rosenior....still not a fan of him though

He really needs to sort his **** out from the start (tactics, starting 11, positions).
He / we got away with one last night ... thankfully. Could have been 2 or 3 down by half time. We were so bad.
We were better 2nd half but still not really that good, but 2 nice goals nicked it for us.
Vinagre made a difference, and nice set up from Doc and finish from Tufan too.
Please let's get it something like right from the start.

 

[Off The Line]

Both teams were shaky last night, probably after having had bad results in their previous two.
I enjoyed the accompaniment of smoggie radio commentary as it was very balanced, and they were spot-on in their assessment that at 1-0 up the next goal would be crucial.
These are certainly the types of games we want to be winning if we're to make a push in the second half of the season.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

I'm surprised that so many people who hate players playing out of position think that Vinagre on the wing is the answer to it.

I have absolutely no doubt that if he started there and it went wrong, people would complain that he's a left back and shouldn't be on the wing...

That's a fair point.

Obviously if Philogene's fit, he plays.

If Lokilo's fit, I think he plays.

Vaughan seems to have fallen a way down the pecking order. At the end of last season the debate was should he go out on loan? I felt he should have gone or if he stayed he should have regular 20/30 minute cameos off the bench. That isn't happening; therefore he should have gone out on loan.

Vinagre is a conundrum. You're right - he isn't a winger. But he has looked the part there in a few subs appearances. However, he looks dodgy as a full back. So what is he?

I don't think anyone really knows his best position.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Vinagre looks night and day from Coyle playing left back, both the cameos he’s made recently he’s been scintillating. Begging he gets a run in the side.

Rosie seems to have his players who are allowed to drop stinkers and still start the next week, whilst Ozan/Vinagre seem to be pulled if they have a bad week.

Vinagre's looked good a few times coming on from the bench, but he's been terrible when he's started, I suspect that's the reason he doesn't start more.

 

[Nikica Jellyfish]

That's a fair point.

Obviously if Philogene's fit, he plays.

If Lokilo's fit, I think he plays.

Vaughan seems to have fallen a way down the pecking order. At the end of last season the debate was should he go out on loan? I felt he should have gone or if he stayed he should have regular 20/30 minute cameos off the bench. That isn't happening; therefore he should have gone out on loan.

Vinagre is a conundrum. You're right - he isn't a winger. But he has looked the part there in a few subs appearances. However, he looks dodgy as a full back. So what is he?

I don't think anyone really knows his best position.

Coyle at times looks dodgy and well out of control with what he’s doing, Vinagre last night was quality, cool as a cucumber under pressure and has to play for me.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Great corner by the way. At long last.

Both Morton and Lokilo take much better corners than Twine.

 

[Nikica Jellyfish]

Vinagre's looked good a few times coming on from the bench, but he's been terrible when he's started, I suspect that's the reason he doesn't start more.

yeah he’s certainly had a mixed bag of performances but I think he deserves a run in the side.

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

Coyle at times looks dodgy and well out of control with what he’s doing, Vinagre last night was quality, cool as a cucumber under pressure and has to play for me.

Coyle shouldn't be anywhere near the left back slot. He's only there because our recognised left backs aren't up to it. That has to be laid at the manager's door. The best solution, until we go into the transfer market, is Greaves.

Basically it's a problem that needs addressing. Whoever we currently choose is just papering over a crack.

 

[originallambrettaman]

Coyle shouldn't be anywhere near the left back slot. He's only there because our recognised left backs aren't up to it. That has to be laid at the manager's door. The best solution, until we go into the transfer market, is Greaves.

Basically it's a problem that needs addressing. Whoever we currently choose is just papering over a crack.

Rosie obviously doesn't think he's ready for the league yet, but I'm hoping we'll get a look at Furlong in the cup game against Brum.

 

[Nikica Jellyfish]

Coyle shouldn't be anywhere near the left back slot. He's only there because our recognised left backs aren't up to it. That has to be laid at the manager's door. The best solution, until we go into the transfer market, is Greaves.

Basically it's a problem that needs addressing. Whoever we currently choose is just papering over a crack.

it’s a big problem Ernie, I aren’t completely sure Vinagre has ever had a fair crack at the whip though and needs to.

 

[PLT]

Rosie obviously doesn't think he's ready for the league yet, but I'm hoping we'll get a look at Furlong in the cup game against Brum.

Furlong hasn't made the bench the last couple of weeks, and Matty Jacob was on there ahead of him at QPR, so my guess is that Furlong has really failed to impress.

Vinagre might get a run at some point, but he's unlikely to start on Saturday. He was out on his feet after 15 minutes yesterday. Can't see him being ready for 90 minutes just three days later.

And I think Coyle playing there is less of an issue than people make out. He can put a good ball in with his left foot. He's really not one-footed like some players are, and full backs playing on the opposite side to their best foot is increasingly common these days. Rosenior mentioned that he wanted the natural left footer for a specific tactical reason at the end of the game, but that isn't always the case. João Cancelo made a career of being a right footed left back and it's happening more and more.