Off Topic Migrant crisis

[Ubedizzy2]

It's the way that the likes of Robert Jenrick and Suella Braverman relish their work that sticks in my craw.

Hard decisions and implementing policies that hurt people are sometimes required when in Government and faced with grave problems.
But it's not necessary to dehumanise people in order to deal with the illegal migration issue.
Neither is it necessary to be cruel to traumatised children.
Those children are not criminally responsible for their circumstances - any more than the children groomed by county lines gangs or perverts are criminally responsible for being used as drug mules or sex slaves. They are victims and they need help. Or at the very least a little compassion.

I mean, painting out cartoon characters from the walls of a kids' asylum detention centre.
Erasing even a tiny bit of happiness or comfort those murals might bring to a child.
That plumbs the very depths of mean spiritedness.

One of the most effective methods of stopping the illegal immigrants (and therefore criminals) from coming to this country, is to make it so that they don’t want to come here.

France are never going to help us stem the flow, so we have to make this country less attractive to them.

Painting lovely Disney murals in asylum centres is not the way to do that.

Rather than looking at this half way through, we should be asking why the murals were painted in the first place.

In any case, Mickey and Minnie are not the correct images for your average 19 year old ‘child’.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

In other news….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66139789

The Dutch government has collapsed after someone ridiculously suggested trying to stem the flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

This issue will be the downfall of the Western way of life.

 

[The Penguin]

In other news….

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-66139789

The Dutch government has collapsed after someone ridiculously suggested trying to stem the flow of illegal immigrants into the country.

This issue will be the downfall of the Western way of life.

Holland will probably be underwater by the turn of the century anyway.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

Holland will probably be underwater by the turn of the century anyway.

Further for the boats to travel then

 

[lardiman]

almost 700 people arrived yesterday in small boats.
A shocking headline figure.

But what should be equally shocking, but simply seems to be forgotten, is how many failed asylum seekers were deported yesterday?
I don't know.
But I'm going to guess it was fewer than 10.

Why can we not have both of these figures published every day?
Preferably along with these two further stats;
how many small boat migrants were granted asylum, and how many people who came to the UK by legal routes were granted asylum.

If these numbers were verified and out in the open, updated daily, we could have a more informed conversation.
But just occasional reports of small boat landings when they happen to break a record is not helpful at all. Not even to Rishi.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

almost 700 people arrived yesterday in small boats.
A shocking headline figure.

But what should be equally shocking, but simply seems to be forgotten, is how many failed asylum seekers were deported yesterday?
I don't know.
But I'm going to guess it was fewer than 10.

Why can we not have both of these figures published every day?
Preferably along with these two further stats;
how many small boat migrants were granted asylum, and how many people who came to the UK by legal routes were granted asylum.

If these numbers were verified and out in the open, updated daily, we could have a more informed conversation.
But just occasional reports of small boat landings when they happen to break a record is not helpful at all. Not even to Rishi.

I agree that those figures would be useful and don’t know why they can’t be published.

But the fact is that there are lots of organised groups who are thwarting deportations against the will of the majority of ordinary people and that is wrong.

There are many reasons why we don’t deport hundreds of people per day but I fear that ultimately the government don’t have control over this, especially when it comes to judges and the courts.

The principal that judges are independent from government is a good idea in theory, but when there is such remoteness from the public from said judges the system doesn’t work.

The judges are not affected by mass immigration so they don’t care about the will of the people or the problems that mass immigration causes.

 

[The Penguin]

I believe we've had some success sending Albanians back home, but then again Albania is perfectly habitable, whereas the likes of Yemen, Syria or Afghanistan are hell-holes, which people will always be desperate to leave. I would, wouldn't you? Like drug-dealers, the criminal gangs are responding to a demand, which I can't see an end to. We have a leader who travels even short distances by private jet, and he is a good example of how the super-rich believe they are immune to the consequences of climate change, and won't tackle it. All the evidence is that it will proceed apace. The immigrant crisis will not end well because no-one is tackling the root cause.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

I believe we've had some success sending Albanians back home, but then again Albania is perfectly habitable, whereas the likes of Yemen, Syria or Afghanistan are hell-holes, which people will always be desperate to leave. I would, wouldn't you? Like drug-dealers, the criminal gangs are responding to a demand, which I can't see an end to. We have a leader who travels even short distances by private jet, and he is a good example of how the super-rich believe they are immune to the consequences of climate change, and won't tackle it. All the evidence is that it will proceed apace. The immigrant crisis will not end well because no-one is tackling the root cause.

I think at the moment, very, very few of the illegal immigrants arriving in the UK are doing so due to climate change.

They are arriving purely for economic reasons or in some cases fleeing genuine fear for their lives.

Those few that are fleeing for their lives are then passing through numerous safe, civilised countries in order to get here. I’m afraid that any sympathy I might have had, ends at that point. If they are really genuine they wouldn’t carry on across thousands of miles and then make the dangerous journey across the channel. Anyone arriving by that method does not deserve to be here and so should automatically be barred.

As I’ve said before if we just make it clear that if you arrive illegally via the channel any right you might have had to remain is extinguished. No if’s, no but’s, no exceptions. Word would very quickly get back to others waiting to do the journey and the flow would stop.

If we don’t do that, they will keep coming in greater and greater numbers and we will be overwhelmed. There will be more deaths in the channel, law and order will break down in this country and our way of life will end and we will become just like the countries these people are fleeing from.

Take your pick.

 

[lardiman]

There's many a Native American, Australian, New Zealander and South African (among quite a few others) who would smile at the irony.

Illegal migrants from the UK ended their way of life. And our European cousins did even worse, mercilessly driving several indigenous civilisations to extinction. What's happening now in Britain and Europe will be viewed by many as poetic justice. Historical payback, if you will.

The land-grabbers and privateers who drove the Industrial Revolution ruthlessly exploited the poor on our own shores and destroyed the indigenous British way of life, forcing families off the land in order to populate their factories and mills (as well as funding colonial Slavery and the military adventures of the British Empire). Their descendants are the Elite who still rule this Country.

That isn't talked about anymore in Daily Mail reading Middle England of course.
But it's the blood of millions of subjugated foreigners and the landless poor of this sceptered Isle that their lifestyle and values are built on.
No wonder they are terrified of what went around now coming back around.

But it may not be that bad really.
Since the Huguenots and probably for centuries earlier, before there even was a United Kingdom, these Isles have accommodated wave after wave of immigrants. Protestants fleeing Catholic persecution, Jews fleeing pogroms, Eastern Europeans, Commonwealth citizens invited here to help rebuild after WW2, victims of Idi Amin and Pol Pot... the list is endless.

And with every influx there have been those who predicted the end of the British way of life.
The most infamous in living memory being Enoch Powell. His 'rivers of blood' speech is worth reading in full for the insight it gives into the mentality of the time. The same can be said of Mein Kampf. But I would not quote from either. Once these works have been read, you don't want to read them again or even think about them much.

Britain will adapt and change. There will be huge difficulties, setbacks and even some violence - as there was in the East End in the 1880's and 1930's and as there was in other towns where migrant populations gather and put down roots.
Playing on fear of that change is the last recourse of desperate politicians whose time in power has come to an end.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

There's many a Native American, Australian, New Zealander and South African (among quite a few others) who would smile at the irony.

Illegal migrants from the UK ended their way of life. And our European cousins did even worse, mercilessly driving several indigenous civilisations to extinction. What's happening now in Britain and Europe will be viewed by many as poetic justice. Historical payback, if you will.

The land-grabbers and privateers who drove the Industrial Revolution ruthlessly exploited the poor on our own shores and destroyed the indigenous British way of life, forcing families off the land in order to populates their factories and mills (as well as funding colonial Slavery and the military adventures of the British Empire). Their descendants are the Elite who still rule this Country.

That isn't talked about anymore in Daily Mail reading Middle England of course.
But it's the blood of millions of subjugated foreigners and the landless poor of this sceptered Isle that their lifestyle and values are built on.
No wonder they are terrified of what went around now coming back around.

But it may not be that bad really.
Since the Huguenots and probably for centuries earlier, before there even was a United Kingdom, these Isles have accommodated wave after wave of immigrants. Protestants fleeing Catholic persecution, Jews fleeing pogroms, Eastern Europeans, Commonwealth citizens invited here to help rebuild after WW2, victims of Idi Amin and Pol Pot... the list is endless.

And with every influx there have been those who predicted the end of the British way of life.
The most infamous in living memory being Enoch Powell. His 'rivers of blood' speech is worth reading in full for the insight it gives into the mentality of the time. The same can be said of Mein Kampf. But I would not quote from either. Once these works have been read, you don't want to read them again or even think about them much.

Britain will adapt and change. There will be huge difficulties, setbacks and even some violence - as there was in the East End in the 1880's and 1930's and as there was in other towns where migrant populations gather and put down roots.
Playing on fear of that change is the last recourse of desperate politicians whose time in power has come to an end.

Valid points of course and as always well thought out.

However, and please don’t take this the wrong way, I don’t care about the history in relation to this matter.

I wasn’t involved in any of that and none of us can do anything to change it, as it’s gone.

But collectively we can do something to change the current direction, but we are being thwarted from doing so by unelected judges who are so remote from the issue, that they don’t understand or care.

I think this is very different to previous mass arrivals.

Just because they turned out ok in the end, doesn’t mean that this will. Those arriving today do so for very different reasons, have come from different backgrounds, have access to different means of travel and communication, have a deep-rooted hatred of this country and it’s type of people and have a completely different moral compass to its current inhabitants.

It may start as a slow trickle, but once we lose control the floodgates will truly open and we will be swamped, overwhelmed and our civilised way of life will be gone.

I do not want this country to descend into the sort of hell-holes that these people are coming from.

 

[The Penguin]

It may start as a slow trickle, but once we lose control the floodgates will truly open and we will be swamped, overwhelmed and our civilised way of life will be gone.

I do not want this country to descend into the sort of hell-holes that these people are coming from.

Haven't we lost control already? Cameron said he would reduce annual immigration to "Tens of thousands", B****t was supposed to enable us to "Take back control" of our borders. Equally fraudulent claims. Call me a pessimist, but anyone who claims to have the answer should be regarded with cynicism. The Rwandan scheme is the latest idea (or gimmick, depending on your viewpoint); let's see how that goes, since none of us actually know. Are we prepared to break international law? Maybe, let's see.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

It really is quite despairing to me.

I will probably just about be OK (or maybe not) but my children definitely won’t be and their children even more so (if that’s possible).

You have to have witnessed what it’s like to live in a lawless place, where what goes is enforced by whoever is the most violent and has the best weapons and the biggest gang to really get how important this is.

We haven’t lost control to that extent yet, but it will be a gradual thing at first and then suddenly the dam will burst and our way of life will very quickly descend. If we don’t deal with this very soon it will become too late.

And yes, I would try Rwanda or something similar or much more severe and I don’t give a f*ck if someone says we’re breaking some international law which someone else has introduced and thinks we should stick to. The consequences of not dealing with this are too awful to ignore just because others are too weak to deal with the problem.

Probably best if I don’t comment further until I’ve calmed down a bit

 

[The Penguin]

The fact that we are recruiting nurses from African countries rather than train and keep our own proves the government is not serious about solving the problem. Not to mention the hundreds of thousands of foreign students and families we take in every year, some of whom will eventually go back home admittedly.

 

[The Penguin]

As long as they see Europe as a land of milk and honey they keep on trying again and again, even after they've been sent back.

 

[Smudger603]

1700 migrants to be kept at former RAF base at a cost of £6M a day how can people say it’s not affecting the country ?
Edit :- £6M is the cost of putting them up in hotels- GMB’s mistake !

 

[ElfsborgAddick]

1700 migrants to be kept at former RAF base at a cost of £6M a day how can people say it’s not affecting the country ?
Edit :- £6M is the cost of putting them up in hotels- GMB’s mistake !

Words fail me.

 

[The Penguin]

1700 migrants to be kept at former RAF base at a cost of £6M a day how can people say it’s not affecting the country ?
Edit :- £6M is the cost of putting them up in hotels- GMB’s mistake !

That's about £3,500 each perday. Are they staying at the Dorchester?

 

[ElfsborgAddick]

That's about £3,500 each perday. Are they staying at the Dorchester?

With bed, breakfast and evening meal.

 

[The Penguin]

Don't go swimming near Portland. The barge will be moored there permanently with 500 male asylum seekers in it. Presumably the sewage etc will go straight into the sea. That's what we do isn't it?
Or will we export it like we do with household waste and some plastic?

 

[lardiman]

The windows on that barge look like a nice size for jumping out of.