Off Topic Migrant crisis
- Thread starter Ubedizzy
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Both my paternal grandparents were from a part of what was then Austria, is now Ukraine. My maternal grandfather was from the Italian Abbruzzi mountains, so one British grandparent.
This man is just yet another rich, completely out of touch nobody who will be one of the very last to be affected by this, so doesn’t care.
It’s a complete side show to be talking about the ancestry of people established in the UK. Yet again it’s an example of how you don’t have to lie to mislead.
What is happening today in terms of numbers arriving, but most importantly intention, is totally different to what has happened in the past.
THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE ARRIVING NOW ARE NOT ASYLUM SEEKERS.
They are fit, healthy, mainly young men who have abandoned their country, their families and their way of life because they have seen that they can have a better life here that they haven’t worked for, at the expense of those of us that have. And our society is too weak to try to stop them.
I’ll say again, why did tens of millions of young men and women die during the wars, fighting to preserve our way of life, if within 100 years we just give it all up without so much as a whimper.
It’s a complete side show to be talking about the ancestry of people established in the UK. Yet again it’s an example of how you don’t have to lie to mislead.
What is happening today in terms of numbers arriving, but most importantly intention, is totally different to what has happened in the past.
THE VAST, VAST MAJORITY OF THOSE ARRIVING NOW ARE NOT ASYLUM SEEKERS.
They are fit, healthy, mainly young men who have abandoned their country, their families and their way of life because they have seen that they can have a better life here that they haven’t worked for, at the expense of those of us that have. And our society is too weak to try to stop them.
I’ll say again, why did tens of millions of young men and women die during the wars, fighting to preserve our way of life, if within 100 years we just give it all up without so much as a whimper.
QUOTE="Ubedizzy2, post: 16749295, member: 1051180"]I’ll not get involved in what a particular politicians did or didn’t say and what any meaning is behind any words used. That’s just politics and this is not a political problem.
Whichever party is in power and whichever politician is Home Secretary and Prime Minister, they will face the same problem. And yet none of them have come up with any ideas about how to solve this problem. Deporting illegal immigrants to a less attractive foreign country as soon as they arrive in the UK, could work. We won’t know until we try it. No one comes up with a better solution, but we are unable to implement this idea.
All people do is complain about this attempt to deal with the problem, they don’t give an alternative.
And in the meantime we continue to see people with no right to be here and no reason to be here apart from greed flooding into this country and turning it into the type of cesspit that they have come from in the first place. Murderers, rapists, terrorists, fraudsters, child abusers, benefit scrounges, drainers of NHS budgets, those with no moral values, those that hate the UK, those that don’t want to live in a civilised western culture or abide by our laws and rules. They are all free to wash up on our shores, with no fear of being sent back, because people in this country are too slow to realise what is happening and what will happen in the future.
All those brave men and women who died during the two world wars have been betrayed. They fought for this country’s values and to preserve our way of life. They sacrificed everything to keep our country safe and just. And we are now just giving it all away without even trying to do anything about it or come up with ways to prevent it.
I might just about be ok but my children and any grandchildren will suffer because we aren’t dealing with the most urgent problem that the country faces. They will live in a totally different country to the one we have all enjoyed. And it will be far worse.[/QUOTE]
OK, I know this is France and not the UK but we all know where the cross channel illegal immigrants are coming from.
Suspect is a 45 year old Syrian seeking refugee status. Surprise, surprise.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/65843586
Anybody who commits a crime who does not have a British passport should be immediately deported.
I'll include speeding and fare evasion on public transport on that.
I'll include speeding and fare evasion on public transport on that.
And Non-dom tax status.
I fail to see how not paying a fair share of taxes is different from any other kind of "sponging" that migrants are so often accused of. According to Labour the Country loses £30 billion per annum because of it.
That's well over ten times as much each year as it costs to be cruel to penniless migrants in the hope of scaring them away.
I'd be quite happy to see the backs of all foreign tax dodgers.
STOP THE PRIVATE JETS would be my motto
Good for the environment too
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Rishi has been crowing about how the boats are down 20% because of his inspired policies.
Cynics have suggested it's more to do with the weather...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-65878554
Mr Sunak begins to resemble King Cnut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut
Which I suppose it better than resembling a ***king cnut.
Cynics have suggested it's more to do with the weather...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-65878554
Mr Sunak begins to resemble King Cnut
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut
Which I suppose it better than resembling a ***king cnut.
The Doolally Mail leads on this story, blaming Starmer for the crossings. I knew they'd find a way to keep the Johnson/Sunak feud off the front page.
Oh good, well done the RNLI. That’ll stop the illegal immigrants for sure.
Another organisation who have lost their way, much like the RSPCA and National Trust.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65893789
Another organisation who have lost their way, much like the RSPCA and National Trust.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65893789
I'm disappointed with the BBC for the way they have reported this story.
But I'm not surprised at the reaction from some quarters.
Those rescued people (doubtless including children, even some babes in arms) are Human beings first - Migrants second.
The men and women who volunteer to risk their own lives in order to save others in danger of being lost at sea deserve nothing but the highest praise. When they go out their mission is to save Human lives - no qualifications, no judgmental quibbling.
The value of a Human life should never be measured by where a person was born, or the colour of their skin, or their religious beliefs, their politics, their social status, their sexuality - or any other measure. Certainly not their immigration status.
Once we go down that route - deciding which group of people are more Human than another group - we've lost our own Humanity.
Seriously, what were those lifeboat crews supposed to do? Stand by on deck and watch people drowning in the Channel?
Or if the distress message they received specified it was illegal migrants in danger, decide not to launch their boat at all?
How could anybody with a conscience do that, and ever sleep at night again.
And if any Government ordered them to do it, they would never obey.
Even Suella Braverman would surely not be so callous.
Though sadly I have heard that similar things are (or were) going on with the rescue services around the Italian & Greek coasts.
Those 108 lives were as precious as any other life saved by RNLI crews.
As precious as the other 97% of lives they saved.
Those who insult the RNLI by calling it a "taxi service" for migrants should be ashamed of themselves.
I bet most of them would be far too terrified to personally go out on a lifeboat mission.
If we ever as a Nation accept that it's OK to choose who lives and who dies based on whether we approve of them or not, we might as well lower the Union Flag and hoist a Swastika over Buckingham Palace.
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Excellent post. My In-laws are from Cornwall and Scilly where it is a matter of pride to be a member of the lifeboat crew. My wife's cousin had a medal for diving in to save someone's life. We visited the Grace Darling Museum a few years ago, and anyone who doesn't know her story should read about it. These people are real heroes, always have been, and it's depressing to read attacks on them.
The RNLI is a national institution we can all be proud of. My personal connection goes no further than doing sponsored walks to raise money gor them back in the seventies. But these people risk their lives to protect those in peril on the sea.
Attacking them for not having a nationality based preference scheme for rescuing people is pretty horrible. @lardiman summed it up. What were they supposed to do? Stand by and watch people drown?
Attacking them for not having a nationality based preference scheme for rescuing people is pretty horrible. @lardiman summed it up. What were they supposed to do? Stand by and watch people drown?
I just want to make it clear that my issue with people who've attacked the RNLI was not meant as a personal dig at you @Ubedizzy2
I was responding to your specific post, but I'm not saying you share all the same opinions about the RNLI as others who (for instance) labelled them a taxi service for illegal migrants.
Apologies if my reply sounded too much like a personal attack.
This is of course a very emotive subject. But I don't want to think we cannot discuss it responsibly.
I'm always opposed to difficult conversations being cancelled in order to avoid sensitivities.
Nothing was ever solved that way.
And I freely admit that this problem has no easy solutions.
But I feel we must resist the temptation to believe that devaluing or even demonising the illegal migrants (as Suella seems to enjoy doing) is part of a possible solution.
That way lies the start of a very dark journey.
I was responding to your specific post, but I'm not saying you share all the same opinions about the RNLI as others who (for instance) labelled them a taxi service for illegal migrants.
Apologies if my reply sounded too much like a personal attack.
This is of course a very emotive subject. But I don't want to think we cannot discuss it responsibly.
I'm always opposed to difficult conversations being cancelled in order to avoid sensitivities.
Nothing was ever solved that way.
And I freely admit that this problem has no easy solutions.
But I feel we must resist the temptation to believe that devaluing or even demonising the illegal migrants (as Suella seems to enjoy doing) is part of a possible solution.
That way lies the start of a very dark journey.
No Lardi, it’s all good. Luckily we have a forum where we can disagree without resorting to threats, insults, bans and offers of personal meet ups to resolve our differences (usually down a dark alley).
Some good replies as always. I think there will always be a very small percentage who just criticise for the sake of it and enjoying coming up with the sort of phrases you’ve highlighted. However I think the vast majority who object to this, and I include myself here, do so with a more measured and thoughtful approach. It’s basically a short term v’s long term argument.
In the short term, it cannot be argued that we should ask the RNLI and others to change the way they operate. If someone is genuinely in need of rescue (but I’m afraid that that is very often not actually the case at all) then of course the RNLI would respond and rescue them accordingly. No question about that and I accept what has been said above.
BUT, long term it is the wrong decision. The message that it sends is “Don’t worry about the natural barrier that exists around the UK because it isn’t actually a barrier at all. It isn’t really a perilous journey across the channel because IF, in the very unlikely event that you do get into difficulty on the water, the French will stay with you until you reach UK waters and then the UK will take over and guide you safely to the UK shore. So keep coming, bring your children and families, we’ve got your back.”
And that is the wrong message, because of course it will mean that more and more people think it’s safe to try and the problem grows and grows, which is exactly what has happened for years. It will mean that all the arguments that have been put forward about why we must help, just put more and more people in danger and encourage more and more people to pay the people smugglers and criminals more and more money. It is not the correct answer to this problem.
I have had countless situations in my life where I have had to make hard decisions, sometimes life or death decisions and sometimes more mundane, where the decision I have made has had an adverse effect on someone else. But when I look back on the long term implications of my decisions I do not regret a single one of them.
All we are doing by making the channel now a relatively safe option is just putting more and more people in the future in danger, including future babies and children that everyone is apparently so concerned about. Stop rescuing people now and you are saving far more lives in the future, as if not, then the numbers will grow and grow and there will be more deaths in the future which could have been avoided by different actions now.
Do what the Aussies did, as in towing the boats back. This country can't afford to take 50k unknowns year on year. The government must protect its people first and foremost, but that is impossible with this ongoing invasion (yes, it is an invasion). And yes, the RNLI is now acting as a taxi service for Albanian gangsters. They won't get another penny from me, which probably doesn't bother them, seeing as plenty of people are increasing their donations. I'll divert my funds to homelessness charities instead.
The army should be deployed forthwith. Build internment camps, complete with stout fencing, tents, latrines and soup kitchens. That'll stop swathes of them from coming over. All this four-star hotel business is an affront to our homeless folk. Why are we not marching and protesting over this issue?
It breaks my heart to say it, but this once beautiful country is finished. Led by gutless berks posing as Conservatives. Imagine Yvette Cooper as Home Secretary. God help us.
The army should be deployed forthwith. Build internment camps, complete with stout fencing, tents, latrines and soup kitchens. That'll stop swathes of them from coming over. All this four-star hotel business is an affront to our homeless folk. Why are we not marching and protesting over this issue?
It breaks my heart to say it, but this once beautiful country is finished. Led by gutless berks posing as Conservatives. Imagine Yvette Cooper as Home Secretary. God help us.
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You've asked a key question there @Ponders Revisited
Why aren't we marching and protesting?
Despite new restrictions on the right to protest due to the rash actions of XR and Just Stop Oil, this country is still one where mass protesting is quite easy to organise. Hardly a weekend goes by when there aren't 100,000 people marching around Westminster under some banner or other.
In a free society, the usual reason why vast numbers of people don't do something (remain inactive rather than gather and protest) is that
there is simply no appetite for it.
I think you're right to blame the incompetence of the current Conservative Government, as it is their fault alone that Asylum applications take on average
18 months to process here, when the same process in other European countries is much shorter.
And I happen to agree that detention centres would be part of the right way of tackling the problem, if applications could be processed an a much shorter time; in an earlier post I suggested 90 days maximum. Ideally nobody who gets off a small boat goes out into the wider community to live in a hotel - everyone is detained for no longer than 90 days, then is either granted asylum or is deported.
However, this Government cannot even find its own arse with both hands.
Let alone solve the problem that has ballooned massively over the 13 years it has been in power.
So the problem will only get worse, and play into the hands of far-right extremist groups run by ex-football hooligans. It is a testament to the tolerance and fair nature of the vast majority of the British People that neo-Nazi hate groups are still exiled to the fringes of our society.
And a testament to the moderate nature of most of us that the Country in general seems to be looking by-and-large towards the centre left for answers to all our current problems, rather than looking further to the right.
But I cannot agree with you on blaming the RNLI.
If you believe that men and women who volunteer to risk their lives saving souls at sea don't deserve to be funded anymore, I can only wonder if you have the matter in proportion.
97% of the people saved by the RNLI are not migrants of any kind but are holidaymakers or mariners in distress.
Would the loss of around 3,000 lives of tourists & sailors & fishermen every year be a price worth paying for 108 asylum seekers drowned rather than brought to our shores?
If everybody took your line of withdrawing donations to the RNLI that is what would happen. The Lifeboat Institute would close down.
3,000 lives would be lost at sea to stop the 'taxi service' for around 100 migrants every year.
And I cannot agree with your insistence that the small boats crisis is an Invasion.
What Vladimir Putin is doing in Ukraine is an invasion.
Suella Braverman knows this, but still she incites race hatred by using the term herself. In my opinion for that reason alone (never mind her general incompetence) she is not fit to be Home Secretary.
Why aren't we marching and protesting?
Despite new restrictions on the right to protest due to the rash actions of XR and Just Stop Oil, this country is still one where mass protesting is quite easy to organise. Hardly a weekend goes by when there aren't 100,000 people marching around Westminster under some banner or other.
In a free society, the usual reason why vast numbers of people don't do something (remain inactive rather than gather and protest) is that
there is simply no appetite for it.
I think you're right to blame the incompetence of the current Conservative Government, as it is their fault alone that Asylum applications take on average
18 months to process here, when the same process in other European countries is much shorter.
And I happen to agree that detention centres would be part of the right way of tackling the problem, if applications could be processed an a much shorter time; in an earlier post I suggested 90 days maximum. Ideally nobody who gets off a small boat goes out into the wider community to live in a hotel - everyone is detained for no longer than 90 days, then is either granted asylum or is deported.
However, this Government cannot even find its own arse with both hands.
Let alone solve the problem that has ballooned massively over the 13 years it has been in power.
So the problem will only get worse, and play into the hands of far-right extremist groups run by ex-football hooligans. It is a testament to the tolerance and fair nature of the vast majority of the British People that neo-Nazi hate groups are still exiled to the fringes of our society.
And a testament to the moderate nature of most of us that the Country in general seems to be looking by-and-large towards the centre left for answers to all our current problems, rather than looking further to the right.
But I cannot agree with you on blaming the RNLI.
If you believe that men and women who volunteer to risk their lives saving souls at sea don't deserve to be funded anymore, I can only wonder if you have the matter in proportion.
97% of the people saved by the RNLI are not migrants of any kind but are holidaymakers or mariners in distress.
Would the loss of around 3,000 lives of tourists & sailors & fishermen every year be a price worth paying for 108 asylum seekers drowned rather than brought to our shores?
If everybody took your line of withdrawing donations to the RNLI that is what would happen. The Lifeboat Institute would close down.
3,000 lives would be lost at sea to stop the 'taxi service' for around 100 migrants every year.
And I cannot agree with your insistence that the small boats crisis is an Invasion.
What Vladimir Putin is doing in Ukraine is an invasion.
Suella Braverman knows this, but still she incites race hatred by using the term herself. In my opinion for that reason alone (never mind her general incompetence) she is not fit to be Home Secretary.
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50,000 undocumented men (where are the women and children?) arriving on our shores is an invasion. William the Conquerer invaded with a fifth of that number. If it is not an invasion of our nation, what is it? Failure to face hard facts when it comes to mass migration has cost us dearly on so many levels - and not just financially.
As for the RNLI, they are hardly in need of my donations. The people seem to be in support of their work in the Channel, meaning increased income. But I'll play no part in it. As I say, I'll help the homeless some more from now on, seeing as they are without hotel rooms, hot showers and three meals a day.
Such a stinking, rotten mess of a country. The most inept shower of politicians in history. Other than that, it's all good.
The word Invasion paints the migrants as enemies who have no other motive than to harm of even destroy our country.
Russian soldiers invading Ukraine are justifiably seen as targets for all Ukrainians (military or civilian) to attack.
Are the people who arrive on the small boats - including women and children - also to be seen as valid targets for any British person to attack?
If the Ukrainian people could, they would kill every Russian soldier. Or drive them out of their country. And rightly so.
Should people here try to kill every illegal migrant they find, or drive them back into the sea?
This is why I can never accept the word Invasion to describe the migrant crisis.
To defend your homeland you fight invaders. You kill them. You drive them out.
Suella Braverman knows exactly what feelings the word Invasion evokes in people.
Fear, and the lowest form of xenophobia.
Yet still she uses it.
These people are not soldiers. They have no guns, no tanks, no missiles or fighter planes.
They are victims of inhuman criminals - people smugglers who exploit misery in the cruellest way.
Being conditioned to hate them will never be part of any lasting solution.
Russian soldiers invading Ukraine are justifiably seen as targets for all Ukrainians (military or civilian) to attack.
Are the people who arrive on the small boats - including women and children - also to be seen as valid targets for any British person to attack?
If the Ukrainian people could, they would kill every Russian soldier. Or drive them out of their country. And rightly so.
Should people here try to kill every illegal migrant they find, or drive them back into the sea?
This is why I can never accept the word Invasion to describe the migrant crisis.
To defend your homeland you fight invaders. You kill them. You drive them out.
Suella Braverman knows exactly what feelings the word Invasion evokes in people.
Fear, and the lowest form of xenophobia.
Yet still she uses it.
These people are not soldiers. They have no guns, no tanks, no missiles or fighter planes.
They are victims of inhuman criminals - people smugglers who exploit misery in the cruellest way.
Being conditioned to hate them will never be part of any lasting solution.
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I'm afraid this line of thought is why we are in such a mess. There are many coming over here to exploit our generosity. Criminals seeping into the the underworld is what is happening. If they have nothing to hide, why not come legally? Why chuck away their documents? The fact is we have no idea who these people are, yet they are free to roam our streets. It is downright dangerous to allow this to continue. How many rapes and murders must occur before the powers say enough is enough? How many billions should be spent on housing would-be gangsters in hotels whilst our own homeless continue to suffer?
The Government has failed to control immigration.
Their utter failure to plan for the effects of Brexit on the labour market has only made matters worse.
The UK Government is supposed to have full control again - that was the whole point of Brexit.
But instead of proper leadership we have had Partygate, Trussenomics, and Honours for COVID19 rule breakers - including a seat in the House of Lords for a 29 year old blonde female intern who definitely looks like she's Boris's type.
In short, a f**king shocking lack of leadership.
This lot need to be voted out immediately.
Then a new group of politicians can attempt to actually get some work done and tackle the crippling problems we are suffering.
Including the illegal migrants in small boats.
And I still say stoking up hatred towards foreigners as our Home Secretary does is a cheap vote-winning scam and a p*ss poor substitute for properly addressing the grave issue.
Their utter failure to plan for the effects of Brexit on the labour market has only made matters worse.
The UK Government is supposed to have full control again - that was the whole point of Brexit.
But instead of proper leadership we have had Partygate, Trussenomics, and Honours for COVID19 rule breakers - including a seat in the House of Lords for a 29 year old blonde female intern who definitely looks like she's Boris's type.
In short, a f**king shocking lack of leadership.
This lot need to be voted out immediately.
Then a new group of politicians can attempt to actually get some work done and tackle the crippling problems we are suffering.
Including the illegal migrants in small boats.
And I still say stoking up hatred towards foreigners as our Home Secretary does is a cheap vote-winning scam and a p*ss poor substitute for properly addressing the grave issue.