Off Topic Migrant crisis

[Smudger603]

Having talked to a couple of charter boat skippers,that have witnessed tactics ( dangling small unaccompanied children over the sea) to force their hands in picking them up from dinghy’s, I can honestly say the calibre of migrants coming over are not what you would want in this country ! And as ponders stated it’s mostly young single males - not families!! Lardy you’re a good guy and I take my hat off to your humanity but we’re being duped mate …… Honestly!

 

[lardiman]

This whole business is a pretty unpleasant one, whichever angle you look at it from.
And there won't be any happy endings.

I appreciate that we've had a chance to discuss it without anybody descending from reasoned debate. It was very sad to hear about hundreds of people drowned in that heavily overcrowded boat that was halfway to Italy a few days ago. No tactic should be spared to go after the people traffickers. I'm tempted to say Special Forces should be deployed to take them out, wherever they're hiding in the World.
But that probably wouldn't work either.

I don't know the answers, and I have nothing more really to add - aside from thanks again for not having to edit this difficult thread in any way.

 

[The Penguin]

I don't know the answers, and I have nothing more really to add - aside from thanks again for not having to edit this difficult thread in any way.

No-one has the answer. At the risk of repeating myself, it's only going to get worse as climate change kicks in and the number of hell-holes increases. Wishful thinking is comforting especially when the truth is so horrendous.

 

[Smudger603]

Sorry but I’m a “ look after your own first” type person - doesn’t mean I have no empathy for others - I still find it strange how the migrants pass through “safe “ countries fleeing from war torn homelands to get to our shores

 

[Smudger603]

I do agree but fleeing to one of the smaller land areas in Europe probably isn’t the answer ?

 

[The Penguin]

I do agree but fleeing to one of the smaller land areas in Europe probably isn’t the answer ?

It's a lot to do with English being the international language. And it's not as though other countries don't have the same problem. More and more people are turning off the news, and it's easy to see why- it's sh1t.

 

[lardiman]

Suella Braverman says the majority of British people will be disappointed that the Government's Rwanda policy has been declared illegal in the Court of Appeal.

On Question Time tonight (from Exeter) the studio audience reflects the voting pattern in that region. Meaning the majority of the Audience are Conservative voters. Fiona Bruce asked the audience for a show of hands from anybody who supports the Rwanda policy.
Not one person raised their hand.
Either because nobody does support it, or because those who do are too ashamed to make that support public.

All Suella Braverman can really claim is that the majority of Daily Mail readers will be disappointed that the Rwanda scheme is illegal.
But even they are seemingly not willing to put their hands up in person.

On top of everything else I think it's the choice of Rwanda that many, including myself, find unacceptable. That country is known around the World for one reason; the Genocide in 1994. One million men, women and children slaughtered in the most savage way in just a few weeks.

Mr Sunak, how can you cynically play on the fear and disgust at the prospect of deportation to a country that murdered near-on an entire ethnic minority less than 30 years ago, and also claim it is a safe third country?

Any third country for deportation purposes is a bad policy in my view.
But paying £millions to do a tawdry deal with a Nation that is best known for being bathed in blood, and that still has a corrupt Government to this day, is frankly stomach-turning.

And that's partly the reason why the things Suella Braverman says, and the race hatred she whips up in the right wing press about the Rwanda policy, gets likened to what was going on in Germany in the 1930's.
Mass deportations to Madagascar was one policy they considered there, years before they settled on their Final Solution.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

Suella Braverman says the majority of British people will be disappointed that the Government's Rwanda policy has been declared illegal in the Court of Appeal.

On Question Time tonight (from Exeter) the studio audience reflects the voting pattern in that region. Meaning the majority of the Audience are Conservative voters. Fiona Bruce asked the audience for a show of hands from anybody who supports the Rwanda policy.
Not one person raised their hand.
Either because nobody does support it, or because those who do are too ashamed to make that support public.

All Suella Braverman can really claim is that the majority of Daily Mail readers will be disappointed that the Rwanda scheme is illegal.
But even they are seemingly not willing to put their hands up in person.

On top of everything else I think it's the choice of Rwanda that many, including myself, find unacceptable. That country is known around the World for one reason; the Genocide in 1994. One million men, women and children slaughtered in the most savage way in just a few weeks.

Mr Sunak, how can you cynically play on the fear and disgust at the prospect of deportation to a country that murdered near-on an entire ethnic minority less than 30 years ago, and also claim it is a safe third country?

Any third country for deportation purposes is a bad policy in my view.
But paying £millions to do a tawdry deal with a Nation that is best known for being bathed in blood, and that still has a corrupt Government to this day, is frankly stomach-turning.

And that's partly the reason why the things Suella Braverman says, and the race hatred she whips up in the right wing press about the Rwanda policy, gets likened to what was going on in Germany in the 1930's.
Mass deportations to Madagascar was one policy they considered there, years before they settled on their Final Solution.

I think I did cover this once before.

Question time is no longer the unbiased program it was back in the days of Robin Day.

The audience is hand picked by the BBC, as are the questions being asked, as is the editing etc etc etc.

We’ve covered most of the underlying debate already, but still no one has come up with a different answer which will actually work, which doesn’t involve getting an agreement with the French.

Talking of whom - take note of what is happening in that country yet again. It is coming to us unless we DO SOMETHING to change.

It is nothing to do with the incident being blamed by some. That can always happen when you have armed Police and people who don’t follow lawful Police instructions.

It has everything to do with having huge numbers of young people with no connection to, respect for, nor history with, the country they reside in.

 

[Ken Shabby]

I'm going to disagree here. There is a lot of misinformation here. Suell Braverman recently claimed 30% of people arriving in small boats are Albanians. Lies. It's 1%. The Rwanda plan is incredibly expensive (£169,000 per person), and its a reciprocal arrangement. Rwanda can send people to the UK, and it's been accepted the plan won't work anyway. So why push ahead? Because it wins votes, which is all the Tories need. I don't even believe they want the bosts to stop, when it earns votes. They even removed the Dublin agreement which meant we could return undesireables, by their useless Brexit negotiation. But yeah, Rwanda eh!!

There are solutions. A processing centre in France, plus safe routes for those that need them, all ignored by the Tories. And there's lots of technology these days.bwhy not a few night time drones to round up the traffickers? Send those guys to Rwanda, although God knows how Rwanda would retaliate.

But no. Braverman and Sunak push ahead, burning money on a scheme their civil servants told them was illegal, which doesn't work, instead of letting grown ups solve the problem.
A general election cannot come soon enough.

 

[lardiman]

As I've said before, this whole furore is not about boats. It is about votes.

It is the most extreme of a number of examples of desperate efforts of a disintegrating administration to cling to power far beyond its time.
The latest - and even more unrealistic - is the 15 year plan to double the workforce in the NHS.
That one is frankly laughable. Or would be if there was any room for humour left in the subject.

This Government will get what has long been coming to it in around 15 months' time.
The sharp suited, immaculately turned out shop-boy-made-good (married foreign £billions) Prime Minister is a passionless, unsympathetic robot.
He hasn't got a clue how much millions of people in this country are suffering. Nor is he even interested.

I expect that after the Conservatives are consigned to opposition, Boris Johnson will re-emerge and probably split the Party.
That will probably mean the hard-right & centre-right splinters will not quickly address and fix their failings, as Keir Starmer has done with the post-Corbyn Labour Party.

That won't help people much. But it will give many some grim satisfaction.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

As I've said before, this whole furore is not about boats. It is about votes.

It is the most extreme of a number of examples of desperate efforts of a disintegrating administration to cling to power far beyond its time.
The latest - and even more unrealistic - is the 15 year plan to double the workforce in the NHS.
That one is frankly laughable. Or would be if there was any room for humour left in the subject.

This Government will get what has long been coming to it in around 15 months' time.
The sharp suited, immaculately turned out shop-boy-made-good (married foreign £billions) Prime Minister is a passionless, unsympathetic robot.
He hasn't got a clue how much millions of people in this country are suffering. Nor is he even interested.

I expect that after the Conservatives are consigned to opposition, Boris Johnson will re-emerge and probably split the Party.
That will probably mean the hard-right & centre-right splinters will not quickly address and fix their failings, as Keir Starmer has done with the post-Corbyn Labour Party.

That won't help people much. But it will give many some grim satisfaction.

On a subject that we sometimes disagree on, I have to say that on this occasion I agree with every word of that.

As I’ve said before, I really do worry enormously about the future for the next generations. Labour do not have the answers to the countries problems any more than the Tories do. Neither party is any good for its traditional voters, but the public don’t seem to be able to understand that and won’t vote for a real alternative.

The scenes in France at the moment will become more and more frequent and the Police and the authorities will be less and less able to control them.

The breakdown of law and order is much closer and much more likely to happen than many people believe.

I have seen it first hand and believe me it is very, very frightening and unless you have witnessed it personally it is far worse than anything else you have encountered.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

I think it's 100% inevitable, question is when? In the near future when the economy collapses under the weight of the national debt, or in the long term when the mass migrations start due to the effects of climate change. It's true that Labour doesn't have the answers, that's because there are none, unless the human race comes to its collective senses.

Over population (of individual countries and the whole world) is the biggest threat we face, as it is the underlying cause of virtually all our other individual problems.

And yet almost NO ONE will talk about it or highlight the issues.

 

[lardiman]

Over population (of individual countries and the whole world) is the biggest threat we face, as it is the underlying cause of virtually all our other individual problems.

And yet almost NO ONE will talk about it or highlight the issues.

Aside from the Western Superpowers, most countries in the World probably view growing populations and people (even refugees) leaving to begin lives in other places as a good thing. The weaponising of emigration if you will.
It's worth remembering that hundreds of small, relatively poor countries without any military might to speak of (but maybe exploitable natural resources) are constantly in fear that they will cease to exist in a political sense - swallowed up by an aggressive neighbour.

Even in Europe, Kosovo for example (right Novax?) and of course Ukraine. There are many places in Africa as well, and the Middle and Far East too...
Having a diaspora is good insurance against your culture disappearing, even if your home territory is invaded.
Sadly nobody, not even the UN, is going to solve those problems in our lifetimes.

 

[The Penguin]

Over population (of individual countries and the whole world) is the biggest threat we face, as it is the underlying cause of virtually all our other individual problems.

And yet almost NO ONE will talk about it or highlight the issues.

Not a suitable subject for dinner parties, old chap.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

Not a suitable subject for dinner parties, old chap.

Nor anywhere else it would seem.

Perhaps Mother Nature, or the Chinese, depending on what you believe, need to produce a more virulent virus next time.

I think that’s actually the only thing that will work.

 

[lardiman]

I see a bunch of right-wing Conservatives want Rishi Sunak to slash immigration before the next Election...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66084962

Partly by denying visas to foreign care workers
We have a crippling shortage of care workers in this Country.
But these hard-right Tories will of course all be rich enough to employ private care workers should they need them.
These "New Conservatives" are just Xenophobes, plain and simple.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

I see a bunch of right-wing Conservatives want Rishi Sunak to slash immigration before the next Election...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-66084962

Partly by denying visas to foreign care workers
We have a crippling shortage of care workers in this Country.
But these hard-right Tories will of course all be rich enough to employ private care workers should they need them.
These "New Conservatives" are just Xenophobes, plain and simple.

I can understand that view, but I don’t agree with it. I think it is the usual case that you cannot speak the truth without getting jumped on and criticised. Those views are not ‘hard-right’ at all. They are sensible, and shared by hundreds of thousands, in fact millions of ordinary Britons. Effectively calling working class Britons ‘hard-right’ because they worry about all the negative effects on society of importing hundreds of thousands of foreign workers each year is appalling. If what used to be called ‘common-sense’ is now deemed to be ‘hard-right’ then we are truly lost.

As a nation (and any nation, not just us) the only way to achieve a successful society is to be self sufficient.

All our care worker needs must be met from our own population. If we import care workers all you are doing is exacerbating the problem for future generations, since all those imported care workers will need care workers in the future who will be imported and on and on it goes. And of course it keeps wages as low as possible.

In addition we do not have the housing, physical space (in habitable locations with the required infrastructure) nor all the other services for hundreds of thousands of extra people each year.

But of course we can’t recruit enough workers for certain jobs from our own population. This is the problem we need to address. And we can only do that by vastly increasing the wages of these types of jobs. But we won’t.

Why ? Because that will decrease the wealth of the rich, who can make more money by keeping wages for ordinary people as low as possible. The rich need a supply of cheap foreign labour to maintain their wealth and they don’t give a sh*t about all the social problems that that creates.

I really wish that Labour would provide an alternative to that system and support ordinary working class British people, but I’m afraid those days are long gone.

I certainly won’t be voting Tory at the GE, but I won’t vote Labour either as they are not the answer.

It always comes back to the same thing - until the public understand that what is needed is proper, major change, then we will continue to go downhill as a society and the rich will get richer and the poor will pay.

 

[lardiman]

Robert Jenrick approved the painting over of a mural on the wall of a children's aslyum centre because the Disney Characters in the mural (Mickey Mouse & Jungle Book characters) were too welcoming.

What a mean, miserable B*stard.

 

[Ubedizzy2]

Robert Jenrick approved the painting over of a mural on the wall of a children's aslyum centre because the Disney Characters in the mural (Mickey Mouse & Jungle Book characters) were too welcoming.

What a mean, miserable B*stard.

Nothing wrong with a bit of hostile environment. Needs to be more of it. Too many bleeding hearts and artists.

 

[lardiman]

Nothing wrong with a bit of hostile environment. Needs to be more of it. Too many bleeding hearts and artists.

It's the way that the likes of Robert Jenrick and Suella Braverman relish their work that sticks in my craw.

Hard decisions and implementing policies that hurt people are sometimes required when in Government and faced with grave problems.
But it's not necessary to dehumanise people in order to deal with the illegal migration issue.
Neither is it necessary to be cruel to traumatised children.
Those children are not criminally responsible for their circumstances - any more than the children groomed by county lines gangs or perverts are criminally responsible for being used as drug mules or sex slaves. They are victims and they need help. Or at the very least a little compassion.

I mean, painting out cartoon characters from the walls of a kids' asylum detention centre.
Erasing even a tiny bit of happiness or comfort those murals might bring to a child.
That plumbs the very depths of mean spiritedness.