Match Day Thread Crystal Palace vs Southampton, Weds 15th December, 19:30

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Or to look at it another way. Had we lost a few of those drawn games, we would be cemented in the bottom 3. But by drawing, we've pulled ourselves 6 point clear. If, would, could, should. We are where we are. It's not brilliant, but equally not disastrous.

For me Ralph had his hands tied in his first two seasons whilst we offloaded high earning, long contract players, blooding youngsters too soon when they weren't really ready. This is the first season in which he has had 'his' squad and one with a reasonable amount of depth. At the moment, (IMO) this is a top 10 squad that is underperforming. Largely because they are still adjusting to EPL and/or Saints style of play. I'm very optimistic that a couple of decent results over Christmas will give us a platform for a good second half to the season. It's all about confidence and self belief at the minute which is a bit fragile. Evidenced yesterday by the dejection at 0-1 and the confident almost cocky play leading to 2-1

Sort of agree, though I don't think it's anywhere near a top ten squad. We can get into the top ten, but it would be a remarkable feat of management/play if we did. That would be playing considerably above the sum of our parts.

 

[Saintmagic]

On what basis is this a top ten squad?

Goalkeeper - no
Defenders - maybe Livramento and KWP and Salisu when he performs
Midfield - Romeu maybe
Attack - no

 

[tomw24]

On what basis is this a top ten squad?

Goalkeeper - no
Defenders - maybe Livramento and KWP and Salisu when he performs
Midfield - Romeu maybe
Attack - no

Broja is top 10 IMO.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

On what basis is this a top ten squad?

Goalkeeper - no
Defenders - maybe Livramento and KWP and Salisu when he performs
Midfield - Romeu maybe
Attack - no

Salisu definitely not. I think he will get there, but too many mistakes still. KWP i'd say yes but only when played at right back.

JWP is also a maybe. Other than that none of them come close. So 3 for me but 2 of them are bloody right backs!

 

[tomw24]

Salisu definitely not. I think he will get there, but too many mistakes still. KWP i'd say yes but only when played at right back.

JWP is also a maybe. Other than that none of them come close. So 3 for me but 2 of them are bloody right backs!

Salisu 100% is a top 10 player.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

Salisu 100% is a top 10 player.

Top 10 CBs don't make as many mistakes as he does. He is very good, especially for his age. I think that as he gets more experienced he will get there and eventually move to a bigger club than us, but still got work to do for now.

 

[Saintmagic]

Guess depends on who you think is currently top 10 and then could do a like for like. We definitely would have some players capable of being in some of their squads but our squad as a whole isn’t there in my view

 

[mowgli]

On what basis is this a top ten squad?

Goalkeeper - no
Defenders - maybe Livramento and KWP and Salisu when he performs
Midfield - Romeu maybe
Attack - no

That’s why I put IMO.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Both keepers, both Armstrongs and Adams still out.

Should I do a thread just in case?

 

[ChilcoSaint]

Both keepers, both Armstrongs and Adams still out.

Should I do a thread just in case?

Oh go on!

 

[StJabbo1]

Both keepers, both Armstrongs and Adams still out.

Should I do a thread just in case?

We shouldn't be threadbare.

 

[Gregm1988]

Top 10 CBs don't make as many mistakes as he does. He is very good, especially for his age. I think that as he gets more experienced he will get there and eventually move to a bigger club than us, but still got work to do for now.

I think you are wrong on that. Take a look at Man United’s centre backs as an example

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

I think you are wrong on that. Take a look at Man United’s centre backs as an example

You mean the Man United that have conceded the 9th most goals in the league this season, despite playing with 2 defensive mids most games I.e defensively they are not in the top 10?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Oh go on!

Oh there you are then!

 

[Gregm1988]

You mean the Man United that have conceded the 9th most goals in the league this season, despite playing with 2 defensive mids most games I.e defensively they are not in the top 10?

The comment was “Top 10” CBs. Where are they in the table? Nothing was said about “top 10 defensively”. That is pretty much the definition of moving the goalposts

And Lindelof, Bailly and Maguire have been making mistakes for years. And once again - what position did they finish last season. Top 4 wasn’t it ?

Top sides don’t always have super rock solid defenders. But they can make up for it in other areas

Also weren’t we in the “top 10 defensively” for the season prior to the Liverpool and Arsenal games ?

 

[SaintinNZ]

That’s a good piece.
Picking up on the line where it says “many of the players experience tunnel vision”.
This I find is happening with an increasing regularity, this season, and is most obvious when one of our full backs is facing up to the man on the ball just outside the corner of our penalty area.
So often this season I have seen (using random names as examples) KWP fronting up to the winger, Redmond dropping back to cover and help, only for Romeu or JWP to also come over and create a 3 on 1 situation. And whilst we have 3 on 1, all watching the ball, an opposing midfielder runs into the space behind them, unmarked, who then receives the ball with time and space to pick out crosses.
If I remember correctly the first Liverpool goal was like this, with Robertson running free.

Yep, just from your description I know exactly the scenario you are talking about. If we aren’t opened up in that scenario then we will ‘clear’ the ball but for some reason it only goes 15 yards and ends up with an oppo every time and we repeat until we do get opened up and concede.

Our psychology makes us so vulnerable literally go weak at the knees under pressure. That’s how it looks and it predates Ralph but it continues under him.

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

The comment was “Top 10” CBs. Where are they in the table? Nothing was said about “top 10 defensively”. That is pretty much the definition of moving the goalposts

And Lindelof, Bailly and Maguire have been making mistakes for years. And once again - what position did they finish last season. Top 4 wasn’t it ?

Top sides don’t always have super rock solid defenders. But they can make up for it in other areas

Also weren’t we in the “top 10 defensively” for the season prior to the Liverpool and Arsenal games ?

Exactly, hence why united are top 10 but their defenders may not be.

Plus there is such a thing as form, Maguire is clearly a top player but has struggled this season. Salisu however is actually playing well but still makes mistakes - because he is young and inexperienced, hence why I don't think he is at that level... yet.

 

[Gregm1988]

Exactly, hence why united are top 10 but their defenders may not be.

Plus there is such a thing as form, Maguire is clearly a top player but has struggled this season. Salisu however is actually playing well but still makes mistakes - because he is young and inexperienced, hence why I don't think he is at that level... yet.

But … the claim was about defenders at top 10 sides. No qualifications as to whether they were top 10 defensively or anything like that

 

[Ronnie Hotdog (MLsfc)]

But … the claim was about defenders at top 10 sides. No qualifications as to whether they were top 10 defensively or anything like that

The claim was that i don't think Salisu is a top 10 level defender

 

[SaintinNZ]

But a lot of draws with twice as many losses than wins and you are on slippery ground, that's my point. If we had managed to win just 3 of those draws (I think we were most likely to be leading in most of the 8 at some point) we would be comfortably in the top 10, 12 points clear of the bottom 3.
I think it's a collective mental block with the team, we don't believe that we can hang on to the lead and therefore it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. You have to foster a winning mentality and i'm with Chilcs maybe a sports psychologist is the answer.
I would be hoping that we are aiming for more than 38 points this season as that would signal regression despite having a deeper squad and not so many of the problems that occured last season.

id be astounded if the club doesn’t have sport psychs working with them and a number of the players should be working with them individually as well. Would love to know if that’s the case or not.