Off Topic So, what now?
- Thread starter bcfcredandwhite
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Eh?
You think big financial institutions moving their assets to Dublin isn't bad news?
Very good news and all highly skilled jobs. But 52 new jobs is nothing in comparison to the thousands we've lost in recent months (even excluding Honda which I'll concede was most likely not to do with Brexit in the main).
What really cheeses me off, is that the people had the opportunity to vote, to stay in the EU or leave....The majority of the people voted to leave....that should be it. No if's, buts, or maybes......I blame the morons of Parliament for the handling of Brexit, it's been an utter shambles, the negativity, the uncertainty has left the country in an absolute mess......and we pay these idiots.....
After the vote, we should have had a team that voted out, from all current members, from all parties to have led the way, surely this would have put a positive and actual direction to where the UK was going. I can understand the thousands of businesses worried for the future with the way it's all been handled.....it's a complete shambles by all those involved......I believe that the majority of Parliament wanted us to remain and the way the process has been handled, it's where they want us to be.
After the vote, we should have had a team that voted out, from all current members, from all parties to have led the way, surely this would have put a positive and actual direction to where the UK was going. I can understand the thousands of businesses worried for the future with the way it's all been handled.....it's a complete shambles by all those involved......I believe that the majority of Parliament wanted us to remain and the way the process has been handled, it's where they want us to be.
I kind of agree with you mate but the big problem is that leave meant different things to different people. I was leave at the time as I've said, but I would never have voted for no deal. Whereas some people in this thread would have voted for no deal, even though it is technically physically impossible, but that's a different discussion.
I think what we should have done is clarify what leave actually meant before the vote, and then voted on that. Then, when leave won, we'd know what the hell we were bargaining for in negotiations and it would have been a million times clearer. Maybe not easier, but definitely clearer. And that has been part of the problem, Government trying to please everybody and in the end pleasing nobody.
I think you're right that the majority of Parliament wanted us to remain. I mean, we've ended up in the bizarre fecking situation where the Prime Minister is a remainer trying to leave, and the leader of the opposition is a leaver trying to remain!
The people were given a choice leave or remain, in or out, stay or go, the majority voted a definite leave, so the remoaner tried to change the goal posts, we didn't vote to be worse off, we didn't vote for unemployment, we didn't vote for price increases blah de blah de blah, now it's a vote for the left who are trying to be knights on white horses and shining armour, defending our rights and being led by that true brave patriot Corbyn or support that terrible lady, con artist and timewaster of the evil and fascist right, who is trying ruin the British way of life May.
Don't these people realise people of all persuasions voted in this referendum were all intteligent people, from all classes, religons, political divides, the EU supporters lost and democracy should prevail, it's a disgrace that the elitests and establishment activists should weald the power to try and hold us to the shakles of the EU, the white, grey haired, unelected buffoons of Brussels making our government no more than a County Council of Europe of one of the districts of EuropeanFederal project.
They told me I was thick, ill informed and not educated in the truth of the EU, I voted to be governed directly by the democratic will of the British people, right or left, judged by the authority of United Kingdom law created and controlled by Brtish personnel, to enjoy the freedom of worship or non worship of my own choice, for us to have the right to choose our own individual trading partners worldwide, to control and make our own immigration rules, fishing industry, agricultural, animal welfare and food production, be a royalist or republican, create workers rights to suit the 21st century, preserve our National Health service, preserve our security systems and personnel, support the independence of the best armed forces in the world and most important of all preserve our independence and sovereignty for all future generations.
We used to get oranges from Israel or South Africa, apples from New Zealand or Australia, Bananas from the Caribbean or South America, Potatoes from Egypt , we don't need Europe, there is a world beyond, we can still trade with Europe, nobody can stop us, it might cost a bit more but that can be offset by competition from worldwide supply, it's a nonsense to pretend we can't cope, we always did, we always will, I have proof we can cope, I lived and travelled and enjoyed the world including Europe long before we gave the bully boy buffoons control.
I look forward to 8 weeks time when we are out and we can all get together again and concentrate solely on our unity, people and country.
Don't these people realise people of all persuasions voted in this referendum were all intteligent people, from all classes, religons, political divides, the EU supporters lost and democracy should prevail, it's a disgrace that the elitests and establishment activists should weald the power to try and hold us to the shakles of the EU, the white, grey haired, unelected buffoons of Brussels making our government no more than a County Council of Europe of one of the districts of EuropeanFederal project.
They told me I was thick, ill informed and not educated in the truth of the EU, I voted to be governed directly by the democratic will of the British people, right or left, judged by the authority of United Kingdom law created and controlled by Brtish personnel, to enjoy the freedom of worship or non worship of my own choice, for us to have the right to choose our own individual trading partners worldwide, to control and make our own immigration rules, fishing industry, agricultural, animal welfare and food production, be a royalist or republican, create workers rights to suit the 21st century, preserve our National Health service, preserve our security systems and personnel, support the independence of the best armed forces in the world and most important of all preserve our independence and sovereignty for all future generations.
We used to get oranges from Israel or South Africa, apples from New Zealand or Australia, Bananas from the Caribbean or South America, Potatoes from Egypt , we don't need Europe, there is a world beyond, we can still trade with Europe, nobody can stop us, it might cost a bit more but that can be offset by competition from worldwide supply, it's a nonsense to pretend we can't cope, we always did, we always will, I have proof we can cope, I lived and travelled and enjoyed the world including Europe long before we gave the bully boy buffoons control.
I look forward to 8 weeks time when we are out and we can all get together again and concentrate solely on our unity, people and country.
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The recent job losses you highlighted in Swindon are because of the trade deal between EU and Japan allows much easier European exports of cars (due to harmonized standards) … The consequence is the UK losing jobs balanced by the EU against the benefit gained by other EU countries from this deal. Its a big price for the UK - but this was happening with or without Brexit.
Britain will have to restructure and redefine itself. Only an idiot cannot see this.
There have been huge changes in the past. Thatcher lead to millions of job losses - Britain restructuring and redefining itself. Trade and the economy changes over time. It's how we react to those changes that will decide the future. Its clear how you react ..
Whining and negativity, not pulling together only damages this Great Country.
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When we vote in the general elections, do we ask for a deal? Does everyone know every policy offered by the so called parties, what we are letting ourselves into?
When couples divorce, that's it, no deal....we part and sort out the finances & kids after, it doesn't affect the actual divorce...
Why can't we do deals after? I'm not understanding the problem.....The only important deal that I see, is what we do with the Irish border, the rest will sort itself out like we do with the rest of the world...
Oh wiz.... I appreciate the patriotism and the passion but so much of that post is just based on untruths.
- There is no left v May. Most of the left think Corbyn is useless.
- We gain naff all extra democracy by leaving the EU. We can already veto important decisions (i.e. Turkey joining, the Euro, etc). And even out of the EU we still have to abide by the UN, NATO, WTO, Paris Climate Accord. Are you going to campaign for us to leave them as well? After all they're just as dictatorial and elitist as the EU right?
- We actually lose immigration control by leaving the EU as we have to have an open border with Ireland which we cannot control.
- We ALREADY have control of our fishing waters, we just decide to sell it. And it represents 0.05% of our economy, so god knows why this has been such a big point for so long.
- You're absolutely right that it will give us the ability to choose our trading partners. It will take an average of 7 years and you can be sure as hell it will mean losing control, as we will have to give up our own standards, particularly with regard to the United States. Do you really think they will accept our high standards in return for free trade? Of course not, it will be the other way around.
Er... yes mate. That's the point. They tell us exactly what they will go for and what they will do. It might not all get it done but you know what you're voting for. We didn't have any of that pre-Brexit. All the leavers were saying what we COULD do, and you know what? Every single one of them referred to staying in Single Market (i.e. a soft Brexit). Gove, Boris, Rees-Mogg, the lot of them. Not a no deal. And suddenly you guys are saying 'no deal' is the will of the people which is completely and utterly incorrect.
You guys are believing what you want to believe and reading what you want to read. Dispute anything I've said, that's fine, but all I'm hearing is tabloid regurgitations. No one thinks any more. People just repeat what they like from what they read.
- There is no left v May. Most of the left think Corbyn is useless.
- We gain naff all extra democracy by leaving the EU. We can already veto important decisions (i.e. Turkey joining, the Euro, etc). And even out of the EU we still have to abide by the UN, NATO, WTO, Paris Climate Accord. Are you going to campaign for us to leave them as well? After all they're just as dictatorial and elitist as the EU right?
- We actually lose immigration control by leaving the EU as we have to have an open border with Ireland which we cannot control.
- We ALREADY have control of our fishing waters, we just decide to sell it. And it represents 0.05% of our economy, so god knows why this has been such a big point for so long.
- You're absolutely right that it will give us the ability to choose our trading partners. It will take an average of 7 years and you can be sure as hell it will mean losing control, as we will have to give up our own standards, particularly with regard to the United States. Do you really think they will accept our high standards in return for free trade? Of course not, it will be the other way around.
Er... yes mate. That's the point. They tell us exactly what they will go for and what they will do. It might not all get it done but you know what you're voting for. We didn't have any of that pre-Brexit. All the leavers were saying what we COULD do, and you know what? Every single one of them referred to staying in Single Market (i.e. a soft Brexit). Gove, Boris, Rees-Mogg, the lot of them. Not a no deal. And suddenly you guys are saying 'no deal' is the will of the people which is completely and utterly incorrect.
You guys are believing what you want to believe and reading what you want to read. Dispute anything I've said, that's fine, but all I'm hearing is tabloid regurgitations. No one thinks any more. People just repeat what they like from what they read.
In fact, let's make this simple. As I'm probably the only remainer here. Let's see if any of you who support No Deal can answer these questions.
- If the EU is so dictatorial, would you support leaving the UN, WTO, NATO and the Paris Climate Accord? If not, why not and why is it different from the EU?
- How do you propose controlling immigration despite having an open border with Ireland?
- What incentive will the US, China, etc have to follow our (currently quite high) standards of produce when going for a trade deal? What's stopping them from making us follow their standards instead? Is that not losing control?
- How are we going to improve trade with the rest of the world when WTO tariffs mean that every British product will now cost more?
Points there have already been answered. If you do not understand how NATO is different to the EU, or the UN and how the Paris accord works … Maybe stop posting and check what has been posted and do some research. You are going off again on wild and unrelated tangents.
I am stating facts, what is actually happening, we voted and we are being deprived, I actually heard these know all people of the remain world telling me and insulting my ability to grasp the understanding of leave, I didn't vote for the big red bus or believe the remainers when they told me world war 3 was about to start, our economy would crash, unemployment would rise by millions.
You may appreciate my patriotism and passion, I'm sure you have the same even though you seem believe the opposite, I honestly believe you mean well but I also think you are profoundly wrong, you seem to have no confidence in our ability as a nation to progress unless we are led by the the nose by our betters in the EU.
As regards the problem of the Irish border, it will be resolved I don't know how but we have had far bigger problems in our history and overcome them, I have faith in the democratic will of our people and believe it or not our politicians and leaders to find a pathway out
You may appreciate my patriotism and passion, I'm sure you have the same even though you seem believe the opposite, I honestly believe you mean well but I also think you are profoundly wrong, you seem to have no confidence in our ability as a nation to progress unless we are led by the the nose by our betters in the EU.
As regards the problem of the Irish border, it will be resolved I don't know how but we have had far bigger problems in our history and overcome them, I have faith in the democratic will of our people and believe it or not our politicians and leaders to find a pathway out
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Cliftonville you've replied to these border problems multiple times and not once been able to actually do it. There's nothing about it being a tangent, those are the main concerns I've flagged and if you want to dodge them then so be it. It says everything about the point. The politicians can't solve it, the EU can't solve it, we can't solve it, but apparently you can, but you're just not able to write it down for us?
I'm not saying you didn't understand, and I'm not saying you're unable to grasp it mate. And you're right to be fair, I don't have the confidence in our ability to progress. I really don't. Not without trade deals which everybody has, not with our current political class who are absolutely useless from left to right, not without at least some freedom of movement, which is likely to come from India and the like in the future if we are going No Deal, and will be lesser skilled than those from the EU (as a general rule). I love the UK and I love Ireland, but it doesn't mean I can't think we have flaws.
I do think the questions I listed above need answering though. If anyone is going to back a no deal, they have to be able to answer those questions to back it all up. Belief isn't enough.
I know it gets heated in here but I genuinely mean no one any disrespect. Just genuine disagreements over one topic, but at least we're all City fans and didn't disagree on choosing the wrong Brizzle side
.
Really?? I can't remember Conservatives manifesto two elections ago promising a referendum to stay or leave the EU.!
I’m crossing from the Costa Del Sol into Gibraltar tomorrow for a couple of days before flying back to Bristol on Sunday.
I wonder for how long that is going to be possible.......
I wonder for how long that is going to be possible.......
I did not refer to the border in my last post. I mentioned Nato, the UN … Because you did. You went off at a tangent again.
I did not dodge the point regarding the border answered it within numerous posts including suggesting to yourself that you read what the DUP suggested in their protocol … You appear to have not bothered to do so, did not acknowledge = Dodging the point because it does not fit with your anti Brexit and wholly negative agenda. Others attempted likewise.
Today the British and Irish governments are working together at looking at alternatives … Its your EU that does not want to solve it. Clearly two Governments think there is always a way forward, another point put forwards to yourself who feels a remedy is an impossibility.
We can however remember manifestos from Labour and the Tories saying they will honour the result of the referendum.
Perhaps all the anti EU political failures who have left parties recently will now resign from their seats because they have betrayed the manifestos they were elected on? Will they ****.
David Cameron promised one if the Tories won in 2015. That's exactly why the Referendum happened!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-21148282
What is that way forward that they can see Cliftonville? Just because they're working towards one doesn't mean it exists. Please tell me.
I would surmise they are discussing the Malthouse compromise or the Brady agreement or the DUP's protocol maybe all three … Which indicates that Governments can see a way forward v the EU's NON.
OK, so the people voted the Conservatives in, with the referendum in mind, meaning the people wanted one, was there anything then saying there will be deals if the outcome of the referendum was to leave? So the majority knew this is what they were voting for.......And then we did have the referendum and the majority AGAIN voted for what they wanted......Conclusion is that "the people" knew from way back wanted out of the EU.......are you still saying that the people did not know what they were voting for?